Linux: Distro Suggestions

[Midget Basher]

I'm just wondering which linux distributions you guys suggest for a beginner.

[Aglar]

Slackware

[Darth Evad]

Red Hat.

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"I love you all!"
OZZY Ozbourne

[Korin]

LFS (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org).

[lateralus]

For a beginner, go with Red Hat

[Emon]

Red Hat or SuSE for newbies.

After that, something like Slackware, Debian, or Gentoo.

[Aglar]

I'm a firm believer that diving right into the deep end is the way to go. I started with Slack, and I never regretted it.

[Darth Evad]

I think I would've died if I tried Slackware first. :/

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[vitaminless]

::raises hand::
(n00b alert)
sorry, but what is the point of having linux unless your running some huge network or server? I mean, what immediate feature (or subliminal, if there's not any) makes it so great for the average home user?
(/n00b alert)


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Setting kittens on fire since the summer of 72!
"you really can have your cat and eat it too!"

[Darth Evad]

For me it was a 2 week project. I couldn't get on the net with my setup and I still don't know why. I dropped it for now but will get back to it after Christmas.
Something new to do and try, to answer your question.

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[Midget Basher]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aglar:
I'm a firm believer that diving right into the deep end is the way to go. I started with Slack, and I never regretted it.</font>

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm going to go with slackware. Does anyone have any tips for me?

[lateralus]

Definatly read up on how to compile it and troubleshoot it, or you're in for a big headache.

[Darth Evad]

Are you good at the command line?
(that was kinda rhetorical)

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[Emon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lateralus:
Definatly read up on how to compile it and troubleshoot it, or you're in for a big headache.</font>

That's why I like Gentoo. It will download source code packages, compile them and install them for you. It keeps a database of what you have installed, and the thousands of programs available on the Portage tree. Calculated dependencies, has a test mode, all this really great stuff.

Say you want the latest versions of KDE, GNOME, X, and a few of your favorite apps. All you gotta type is this:

emerge kde; emerge gnome; emerge x11; emerge otherapp_eg_ogle; emerge xmms; emerge mozilla; emerge blahblahetc

It'll download the latest source for the packages and install it... All optimized for your CPU, really fast. &gt;:-D You could then do an emerge -c to remove all the old packages.

[Darth Evad]

^^^ Are you good at the command line. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[Emon]

Yeah, pretty good.

Oh yeah, there are graphical utilities for Gentoo's package management system (Portage, it's called)... KPortage is pretty good.

[Aglar]

Alright. Please don't give up at the first bump in the road. If something doesn't work right out of the gate, don't get frustrated. Once you've got everything down you'll be happy you did it this way.

[Emon]

Once you learn how to use it things actually get easier.

[Darth Evad]

Yeah. What those guys said. Don't let my comments discourage you.
Honestly, I pulled my hair out for a couple of days, but then I was kinda glad I stuck with it and actually got it working.
The manual is your best friend when it comes to installing Linux.

[Emon]

The manual, lordvader, and #linux and #yourdistroname on irc.openprojects.net. http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif JavaBean knows a lot about Linux, but all he ever says is "Google" or "RTFM". http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

[Darth Evad]

I hate RTFM!!!!!

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[Midget Basher]

But it's the best way to find out an answer . . .

[Midget Basher]

Bah, I hate 650meg CD-R's! Nothing ever fits on them! I asked my father to bring home some 700meg CD-R's from work [he works at a computer store] and he said he would, but he still hasn't.

[Midget Basher]

Ooh, I think I like LFS. Anyone have anything to say about it?

[Emon]

I have to say that Gentoo is WAY better.

www.gentoo.org (http://www.gentoo.org)

[Midget Basher]

One problem with Gentoo: the computer I'm installing it on doesn't have internet access.

[Darth Evad]

Let me rephrase that.
I hate when people just say RTFM!!!
I do RTFM. If you remember one of my old sigs, it said 'I did RTFM. I'm just too much of a newb to understand it.'

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[Midget Basher]

Ahh, that makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, that bothers me too. I wouldn't be asking the question if I didn't read the manual first.

[Aglar]

Yeah, but that isn't true for everyone.

[lateralus]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aglar:
Yeah, but that isn't true for everyone.</font>

sadly

[Emon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Midget Basher:
One problem with Gentoo: the computer I'm installing it on doesn't have internet access.</font>

Yes that would be a problem.

[Midget Basher]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aglar:
Yeah, but that isn't true for everyone.</font>

That's why people say RTFM, because they're fed up with dealing with people who DON'T RTFM.

[Korin]

LFS is good. It does take a significant amount of time to compile and install each individual package, but the experience gained is worth the tediousness. While Gentoo is bloat-free, it limits the user's control to a certain degree. Dependency on a central server (and its maintenance) bothers me - without the continued creation of new build scripts, upgrading would be difficult and kludgey. Ultimately, the deciding attribute was LFS's lack of constraining requirements - when finished, it's a collection of untouched vanilla binaries and bootscripts. Using Gentoo, on the other hand, means using its installation software, its toys, for the duration of your system's life.

[Emon]

Upgrading with Gentoo is actually very, very easy...

[Korin]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...without the continued creation of new build scripts, upgrading would be difficult and kludgey.</font>

Upgrading with Gentoo is easy, provided there's a premade script.

[Emon]

Uh, you can install things manually, too.

[lordvader]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Emon:
That's why I like Gentoo. It will download source code packages, compile them and install them for you. It keeps a database of what you have installed, and the thousands of programs available on the Portage tree. Calculated dependencies, has a test mode, all this really great stuff.

Say you want the latest versions of KDE, GNOME, X, and a few of your favorite apps. All you gotta type is this:

emerge kde; emerge gnome; emerge x11; emerge otherapp_eg_ogle; emerge xmms; emerge mozilla; emerge blahblahetc

It'll download the latest source for the packages and install it... All optimized for your CPU, really fast. &gt;:-D You could then do an emerge -c to remove all the old packages.</font>

Extremely poor form, with something of that nature, it would be a better idea to separate the commands with && rather than a semicolon, if one package's installation were to fail, it would generally be better that you know about it rather than waiting until all are installed to find out. In general, there aren't many cases where one would want to use a semicolon. Also, Gentoo isn't special because of its package managment, the three major BSDs have a portage tree, as well do other distros. Also, the whole idea of installing given only a command line, entering a chroot, and installing packages, once again, from the command line, isn't the best idea for someone new to Linux, I'd suggest Red Hat or Mandrake, they make learning much easier, also, with Gentoo, it's inconvenient to have to wait a long time for packages to build, especially the initial build of the system, XFree86, and Gnome. Besides, in many cases, there will not be an extremely noticable difference in speed. Also, some Gentoo installation guides mention using -O3 as a compiler flag which can, in some cases, break programs and create extremely unstable conditions.

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[Emon]

1. Thanks. I wasn't aware && was different from ;.

2. I know Gentoo isn't entirely unique, but it's supposed to be a lot better than the other BSD systems. It's also Linux, not BSD.

3. I know it's not good for newbies, but since he was thinking about LFS which would be even WORSE for newbies, I suggested it.

4. I'd actually go with SuSE over Red Hat and Mandrake. Red Hat is good, but it's really slow. Mandrake has that tendency to just generally not work at all sometimes.

5. I've noticed a significant increase in speed. If you let it automatically select your CPU arch, it'll probably come up as just general i686. If you edit the /etc/make.conf and change the march thing to something like athlon-xp, there's more of a speed increase. Yes, it does take a long time to build, which is why they have those stage 2 and 3 tarballs, they have them compiled on many different CPUs.

6. If -O3 breaks things, don't use it! http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

[dalf]

1. I used Slackware 3.2 on my first ever install of Linux. Ohh man did I ever have headaches. But that's because I was using an entirely different operating system. But I stuck with it.

2. I never use -03 for compiling. It's always g++/gcc -O2 -g -Wall -o &lt;my_name&gt; &lt;my_prog.c/cpp&gt; I always optimize for speed not size.

3. I know I'm gonna get some flak for this but Gentoo?

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"A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives pricisely when he means to!" --Gandalf

[Midget Basher]

I've got the slackware install iso on my hard drive, along with the boot/root disk images. All I've got right now are 650 meg CD-R's, but my father's bringing home a 50-spindle of 700 meg CD-R's tomorrow, so I'm going to start installing tomorrow night. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks for the help, expect to see me back here soon asking for more.

[Darth Evad]

Make sure you know your hardware and it's details.

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[Midget Basher]

Problems . . .
I didn't even get a chance to fail to have the information I needed. I put in the boot disk and turned on my computer, and after the bios stuff I recieve the friendly message "BOOT FAILED". Nothing else, simply "BOOT FAILED". I had the install cd in the drive, so it can't be that. I didn't think it was even needed at the part of the install process. I'm using the bare.i floppy image, by the way. If you guys have no suggestions, I'm going to try stripping devices from my computer until it boots the floppy.

[Darth Evad]

Slackware?

How's your partition for the Linux OS? It has to be a non-DOS partition.

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[This message has been edited by Darth Evad (edited November 26, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Darth Evad (edited November 26, 2002).]

[Midget Basher]

That's what the boot disk is for; it loads a minimal OS that lets you format and such before running the setup program. The boot disk itself gave me the error when I tried to boot. The filesystem on the HD shouldn't have anything to do with what I'm booting from a floppy.

[Darth Evad]

Yep. Ok.
I fdisk'ed and made a non-DOS partition. Stuck the iso CD in and away I went.

Sorry. I can't help you from here. http://forums.massassi.net/html/frown.gif

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There's my way and then there's the wrong way.

[lateralus]

I'd seek help from lordvader, or an IRC channel that specializes in your particular distro

[Midget Basher]

That's a good idea. I'll try that. I'm leaving tonight to go to Idaho for the rest of the week, but I'll let you guys know what happens when I get back.

[lordvader]

It's odd that you get that problem, I suggest you write the disks again, and make sure you're not switching from boot to root disk until it tells you, initially it tells you to hit enter but you're not meant to switch disks.

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[Midget Basher]

Yes, it is rather odd. I'm not switching disks at all, that's the first and only message I recieve after the standard boot sequence. I'm posting from my grandparent's house in Idaho, but when I get home I'm going to write the disk image again, on a different disk. I've also got a question about the root disks. On the slackware web page it suggests that I should use color.gz as the rootdisk [singular], but it's larger than 1.44 megs by itself, and it extracts to a file even larger than that. I found a set of 5 install.x [install.1 install.2 ...] files in a rootdisk folder on one of the ftp servers, but there were only two of them on a different server, and they weren't on the third one I checked. I'm just using the five for now, but I want to know if I'm not understanding something important. Thanks once again for your help.

[Is_907]

odd... Slack 8.1 cd install never needed a root disk for me... &gt;shrug&lt; oh well.

oh and btw Emon, Debian is probably the best working of a portage tree =) (j/k I haven't tried Gentoo)

and since you're already into Slack I won't tell you to listen to lv about starting with RH or Mdk =)
and irc.openprojects.net's #slackware is extremely useful as well as #linux. also every now and then drop into #cpp on irc.holonet.org and say ello to us =)

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!" &lt; g0ld3n rul3 0f linuxx

[Midget Basher]

Yeah, it might not need a boot/root disk, but for some reason or another I've never been able to get that computer to boot from a cdrom, any cdrom. I've tried several different cdrom drives, every different setup I can think of, and it still won't work. It's very odd. If anyone has any advice on that, it'd be very nice to listen to as well. Also, I still need to reformat that drive, it's the drive my current OS is on [win2k] and so I can't format it from there, so I've been planning on formatting it before I run setup. Anyway, I'm going to get to work on that now, I'll let you guys know what happens. Have a great day.

[Midget Basher]

Well, it's working now. Nothing's changed, it just started working correctly. The only problem is the fact that I've only got two good floppies. All the rest suddenly died on me. Ick! I'm going to be running back and forth between different computers writing floppy images all night.