Scripting Coding.. Where do I start?

[Obi_Kwiet]

Hey, I would like to know what language I need to know to do a little scripting and codeing for mods, and mabye create a very simple programe. What owuld be this bewst way to learn this language? Thanks!

[finity5]

I am not an extremely fluent (or talented) programmer, but I have taken a shot at it. If you are looking to write simple programs, you might try C++ or Visual Basic. There are other languages out there, but I am unfamiliar with them. For mods (assuming your talking about JK) then you'll want to learn COG which is JK's scripting language used for dynamics in the game. Wait for a reply from GBK, he can point you in the right direction http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

[Cool Matty]

It all depends on what game you are modding. Most games nowadays use special scripting languages which is usually based off the language the game was written in.

For example, JK was written in C. As such, cog is heavily based on C. It's not nearly as powerful, but they have plenty of similarities.

JO/JA use ICARUS, which is based off of C++, but has a lot of differences.

Generally, the C and C++ route is safe as far as gaming is concerned. People usually start off with C, then move on to C++. C++ is different than C, although both are powerful and have similar formatting.

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[Obi_Kwiet]

Dang... You have to learn a new language for every game? That's bad. What aobut, say, the Unreal 2 engine?

[SithGhost]

While I don't know what scripting language the Unreal 2 engine uses, I can offer you a bit of comfort. Once you wrap your head around the concepts that are shared by the widely used programming languages, chances are it won't be too hard to switch between your native language and the scripting language. The code might look a bit different, but you'll probably end up using the same ideas, which will make things easier when getting into a new scripting language.

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"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."

-Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by SG1_129 (edited July 03, 2004).]

[Stormtrooper]

What SG1_129 said, once you get the basic structure of one language, most of the other languages are really easy to understand and adapt to. I started learning cog a few years ago and I just recently started using javascript to code games and it's very easy because of learning cog.

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[lucky_jackpot]

What SG1_129 said (is there an echo in here Stormtrooper http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif). Generally, most games now-a-days tend to be scripted/programmed in C/C++ - I believe UT was a C-based (if not C itself) programmed game and it's popularity lay mainly in the fact that it was cross-platform (both Linux and Windows could play from the same base code). That and the fact that UT still is just a kick-a$$ game - but I fear I'm going off on a tangent... http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

As far as scripting languages go, Beanshell is a lightweight Java scripting language that you can use, but to make a full-blown mod, you really need to get to grips with a full, solid programming language - your best bet for modern high-level languages include C, C++ and Java (and I will smite down people who say that Java can't be used for games - not applets - I mean full game applications! http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif).

But like SG1 said, once you've got some general-purpose algorithms for various set-pieces, then chances are you can equally apply them to any language (sometimes some languages need a little more "persuading/coercing" than others... http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif).

-Jackpot

PS: I try not to let my bias get in the way of my judgement.... "Go Java!!" http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

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"lucky_jackpot is the smily god..." - gothicX
"jackpot is an evil evil man... so evil, in fact, that he's awesome." - Seb

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Kindness in another's trouble, courage in your own"
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[Cool Matty]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lucky_jackpot:

What SG1_129 said (is there an echo in here Stormtrooper http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif). Generally, most games now-a-days tend to be scripted/programmed in C/C++ - I believe UT was a C-based (if not C itself) programmed game and it's popularity lay mainly in the fact that it was cross-platform (both Linux and Windows could play from the same base code). That and the fact that UT still is just a kick-a$$ game - but I fear I'm going off on a tangent... http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

As far as scripting languages go, Beanshell is a lightweight Java scripting language that you can use, but to make a full-blown mod, you really need to get to grips with a full, solid programming language - your best bet for modern high-level languages include C, C++ and Java (and I will smite down people who say that Java can't be used for games - not applets - I mean full game applications! http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif).

</font>


You show me one practical 3d-accelerated game that runs at anywhere near the detail, speed, and overall ability and I'll let you smite me as many times as possible.

Java is the worst programming language I have come across. It's only redeeming feature is the fact that it is cross-platform. But what it doesn't have is speed (Like, slow as crap, even on fast systems?), power (C++ totally destroys Java in this respect. Java has no direct links to system hardware), support (hardly anyone in the right mind uses it), and more. I'd rather program a game in VB than do it in Java. Hell, I'll do one in BASIC. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...
Make Sorrowind Worthwhile... join it! http://sorrowind.net

[Emon]

Well...Java is far from terrible, it can be quite practical, but not for applications which require speed. You can make 3D games and graphics demos in Java, but not a large, full scale 3D game. Not unless the running code is in other than Java.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[MentatMM]

Java is a great language to learn if you're looking for a job. Emon summed up my feelings exactly.

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[SithGhost]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MentatMM:
Java is a great language to learn if you're looking for a job. Emon summed up my feelings exactly.

</font>

So is C++. But wouldn't it more or less depend on the type of job you want?

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"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."

-Albert Einstein

[MentatMM]

Your geographical location may play a huge role in the types of languages you learn if you're looking for a job. C/C++/C# jobs are quite rare in my area, while Java and VB jobs are a dime a dozen. While what language you learn may depend on the type of job you want, you may be limited to certain types of jobs in certain locations.

Back to the original topic though, I'd highly recommend getting you a good C++ book to start off with. "An Introduction to Programming with C++" by Diane Zak is great. You may even want to start off with a good book on programming logic, although most people seem to do just fine learning as they go along.

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[Obi_Kwiet]

I'll get that. I'm only 14, so it'll be awile before I can get a job off it. I just want to know a usefull language.

[Emon]

By the time you go through college, there's no way you would know just C or C++ and not Java, or just Java and not C or C++. That just doesn't happen anymore. Good universities teach a variety of stuff, which is great in the practical world.

High performance industry requires real skill with C and C++, and outsourcing isn't nearly as bad as it is for the industry where you create dinky little crap like popup blockers and that stuff. Especially with games and graphics, real stuff like that I can never see getting outsourced, I just don't see little Indian low skilled code monkies being able to produce something that good.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[lucky_jackpot]

Lighten up Matty http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif - I was in no way saying you can't/shouldn't use Java for gaming purposes, merely that you can do it in Java, although not many people know about it or, as is more likely the case, choose not to do it (I may just be a stubborn sadist http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif)

Certainly, as of time of writing, Java tries to hardware-accelerate any image you load by using Toolkit's "getImage()" method. Thus, because Java makes it automatic, you usually don't have to take any extra effort to make an image hardware-accelerated. But I've only just started out down the Java3D/gl4java route, so my knowledge in this area is limited to what I've come across so far in my "play sessions" http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif. This all said and done, I admit that presently Java isn't up to the task for full-on gaming, in comparison with C/C++. But maybe give it some more time - it's still one of the "newer" languages out there... http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif *holds breath and hopes, lest I be smited by Cool Matty and the "I told you so" line in the future... http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif*.

As far as a language's resources and purpose go, I feel Emon's input summed it up perfectly; I'm also pleased to note that it's not just me that's noticed a "geographical location" connection, so I give kudos to MentatMM for that observation http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

Anyways, back on topic (I do apologise about that good-natured rambling banter there) good basic scripting languages I guess are JavaScript and (to a lesser extent because it's only supported by one browser) VBScript. I'd go with javascript, personally, because you can do more with it - at least certainly from an "ease of use" perspective. And there's always COG too for JK modifications, from a fun p-o-v http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

Just my two humble pennies worth... http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

-Jackpot

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"lucky_jackpot is the smily god..." - gothicX
"jackpot is an evil evil man... so evil, in fact, that he's awesome." - Seb

"Life is mostly froth and bubble, but two things stand in stone,
Kindness in another's trouble, courage in your own"
("Ye Wearie Wayfarer" - by Adam Lindsay Gordon)

[Pommy]

You all suck for not mentioning server-side languages like PHP.

Even though it has nothing to do with his question.
*******s.

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[SMOCK!]

Learn Perl!

/me runs

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[dalf]

Learn VB!

My death will be painful...

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[Cool Matty]

/me sets the timer on his auto-smite script to "the future, when Java has gone the way of BASIC"

And Pommy: It's assumed that everyone knows that PHP is God, and as such, doesn't need to be pointed out http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...
Make Sorrowind Worthwhile... join it! http://sorrowind.net

[Dj Yoshi]

If you want to make money making programs--VB, most certainly. It's microsoft only, it's I hear easy, it's horribly messy though I hear, but it's a great way to make some money.

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[gbk]

Whatever you do, dont even look at any sort of BASIC, especially VB. Its a terrible language, and itll ruin your whole idea of programming. Try something more along the lines of Perl or C.

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[SithGhost]

Nevermind.

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"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."

-Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by SG1_129 (edited July 12, 2004).]