If you could add something to COG....

[Jon`C]

....What would it be?

------------------

[Checksum]

**** , this one's easy.

A) A way to identify left, right, top, and bottom of an object, similar to the way thingviewdot lets you identify forward/backward

B) A method of identifying the saber as an object

C) jkgetsaberinfo(player);

D) some knockdown physics flag that makes you behave everything like an MP corpse, to be set and cleared easily in one simple verb

E) some keyframe flag to play the key without autofill

(I'll probably edit and add more)

------------------
Duel Zero (http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum5/HTML/010438.html) key count: 15 done, 10 to beta release, 35 to final release.

[Emon]

I'd just make it C or C++.

Edit: Because then you can just do anything.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited September 30, 2003).]

[Jon`C]

Apart from increasing the implementation complexity of the COG VM.

------------------

[gbk]

Where do I start? http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif


Geez, 'Findsectoratpos()' for JK, would be a starter. And colored dynamic lighting... Cant forget that.

------------------
Back in Black...

[Jon`C]

Ooh yeah, findsectoratpos is at the top of my list. Don't worry GBK, I used to be a cogger. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

------------------

[gbk]

Functions to find the positions of indiviual nodes on a 3d0. (Indy cna do this, oddly. Crack open the demo and see what I mean)

Function to get a count of the number of adjoins inview, looking in a specified direction. (more for troubleshooting than anything else, but still)

Functions to tranfer player control to another object.

Proper math functions. Sin, arc, tan, the works.


And the ability to store strings incog. In other words, a new symbol type; string.



Symbols
Mesage Startup

String NewString="Testing.."

End
Code
Startup:

Print(NewString);

NewString="Testing, one, two..");

Print(NewString);

Stop;
End


..I think you get the idea...

------------------
Back in Black...

[Tazz]

Ability to easily code more weapons per key, like MotS,

Ability to change the ammo counter without hacking

------------------
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

-Tazz

[lucky_jackpot]

After having programmed in Java and (to a lesser extent) C, I know this sounds trivial, but I miss the incremental/decremental (sp?) aspects - eg: "++x", "--x", "x--", "x++". Especially in "for" loops http://forums.massassi.net/html/redface.gif

Had me puzzled for quite some time why my loops weren't working before I realised that cog's limitations meant you had to code something like x=x+1.

As I say - I know it's trivial, but sometimes it is just the little things I miss... http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

As Checksum mentioned, there'll probably be a few more things, if I can remember them (made a list once upon a time...) lol

-Jackpot

PS: As a side-note, I do have a life lol http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif ... Gah - heck - who am I kidding http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

------------------
Are you feeling lucky, cuz if you are, get your hands off me... ;)

"Life is mostly froth and bubble,
But two things stand in stone,
Kindness in another's trouble,
Courage in your own"
("Ye Wearie Wayfarer" - by Adam Lindsay Gordon)

[SaberMaster]

Mainly what's been said above.

But in general, I'd like to see more control of models in JK, functions designed to check for collision along a vector, some decent math functions (!), less hard-coding / better control for player-specific things like the saber and headpitch, GetAttachThing(), a way to store multiple user values with a thing (!), a way to overcome the variable / size limits of a cog, global variables in a JKL, A better way than SendMessage() or SendTrigger() to break a cog into several files, etc.

Hey, GBK, check this out:

string="blah";
Print(string);


------------------
Author of the JK DataMaster (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html), Parsec (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html), Scribe (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html), and the EditPlus Cog Files (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html).

[Hellcat]

I get this strange feeling that you can almost implement this Jon...

But I would say:
Scopes like in mots
SetThingLook for head pitch
Basic trig

------------------
Team Battle (http://www.out-post.net/jkteambattle/).

[Jon`C]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hellcat:
I get this strange feeling that you can almost implement this Jon...</font>

http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

------------------

[Wave_Of_Mutilation]

This is why I only edit MotS anymore...a few key things are in MotS cog that aren't in JK.
Plus it has dynamic lightning.

SetThingParent(), zoom verbs, and getsectoratpos() are to good to pass up, bye JK.

That said, more control over sabers...its all hard coded and you have limited ability there. A way to prevent highspeed projectiles (i.e. conventional bullets) from random incorrect 3do sphere collisions.

And I agree, store more than one variable with a thing.

Getadjoinsinview() would be pretty great too.

Some things that are not really cog...better lighting system, better netcode.

------------------

[Edward]

Everything possible!

[gbk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SaberMaster:
...Hey, GBK, check this out:

string="blah";
Print(string);


</font>

No, I dont believe it! Its . . . wow! http://forums.massassi.net/html/eek.gif


And Jon`C, if youve actully managed to get LEC to put the source in the public domain . . . or even if youve just managed to get ahold of a copy . . . dude . . my hats off to you..

------------------
Back in Black...

[Jon`C]

Pfft. You think so small.

------------------

[Emon]

Hehe, I know a secret. http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

A Quake style console (by that I mean accessable in game) that can accept all sorts of debugging output would be invaluable. It's so easy to figure out what's wrong when it tells you what the problem is and where, not like JK where it's just like, "Hey, something went wrong, time to crash!"

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited October 02, 2003).]

[gbk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jon`C:
Pfft. You think so small.

</font>

Obviously. So, enlighten me.

------------------
Back in Black...

[Jon`C]

Not yet.

------------------

[Emon]

Hehe, I know the secret. http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[Jon`C]

OMG THE SECRET.

...OMG! I know the secret too! OMG!!

------------------

[gbk]

Thia is starting to freak me out. Will someone PLEASE tell me what the hell is going on here??

------------------
Back in Black...

[Emon]

If you spend half as much time on your computer with JK as you claim you do (why did I say that, there's no doubt...), you should be able to figure it out yourself.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[Hellcat]

Either you have pulled a source code decompile - which is quite possible, or you have implemented something external.

Or maybe I am still thinking to small.

------------------
Team Battle (http://www.out-post.net/jkteambattle/).

[Emon]

Nope, source code decompile isn't at all possible, not if you want it back in C or C++.

Still thinking too small. I'll give you a hint:

V

http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited October 02, 2003).]

[Descent_pilot]

So much to add that I'd ever want and need...
A lot of stuff I'd want has been said, but lets see what else I'd want... touched/damaged reacts to surfaces exponents stop all sounds/keys with a given sound/key stop all sounds/keys on a thing check what sounds/keys are playing cancel all sounds (which I think someone did something with all sounds, anyone remember?) make the player hear from a pos or thing other then where the viewpoint is sound distances in JKUs true key trapping blur/sharpen the players vision stop the refreshing on the player's view, but time moves around be able to set every argument for templates instead of using ParseArg()

There's my input.

------------------
The Sniper Missions. Current project, The Sniper Missions

The Magician Saber System.

The 2 riddle! (http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/028595.html)

[This message has been edited by Descent_pilot (edited October 02, 2003).]

[Emon]

Pfft, so small. http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

The ability to easily implement your own functions (which lets you do all of the above).

I want classes, inheritence, polymorphism, oh my!

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited October 02, 2003).]

[gbk]

Emon, Jon, why in the blue hell are you guys even worrying about JK anyway? I thought you guys moved on to 'bigger' and 'better' games, like JO or JA.... Why the sudden reversal?


Or are you gonna say something like "If you want all that stuff, move on to JA"? http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif

------------------
Back in Black...

[gbk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Descent_pilot:
cancel all sounds (which I think someone did something with all sounds, anyone remember?)
</font>



For(I=0;I&lt;=100000;I=I+1) Stopsound(I, 0.01);


------------------
Back in Black...

[Tazz]

ability to use mp3's http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

Actually, just more model manipulation, and better math

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GBK:
Or are you gonna say something like "If you want all that stuff, move on to JA"? </font>

That would seriously tick me off.

------------------
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

-Tazz

[Emon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GBK:
Or are you gonna say something like "If you want all that stuff, move on to JA"? http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif</font>

No... But that is a very feasible solution.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[The MAZZTer]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jon`C:
OMG THE SECRET.</font>

Well, what is it?



------------------
The Mega-ZZTer's Gaming Haven! (http://mzzt.atronox.com/) - Under Construction
NEW! PHP implementation underway!
Website is working again. (Somewhat.)

[Jon`C]

If I told you it wouldn't be a secret anymore.

------------------

[DogSRoOL]

jkSetVertexPos(sectorref, vertexref, x, y, z) jkMoveVertex {a smoother transition than jkSetVertexPos in case the transition could/should be seen} 3DO VERTEX REFERENCING AND MANIPULATION http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif 3DO NODE REFERENCING (position, type, flags, mesh) http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif Use of multiple print 'types' in a single line (using variables somehow with straight text without starting a new line, kinda like with the jk string commands) Ability to control the player's model directly instead of implementing a look-alike actor. 'mp3' symbol Weapon meshes for any actor type.
That about covers it... for now http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

And if you tell us you can do this stuff, it'll probably get me back into JK editing. (yay!)

Not to mention many will consider you a jk god. http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

------------------
"The Just shall live by faith." - Galatians 3:11
To edit is human... To COG is divine!!
America is a giant horn-dog.
The Giant Internet IC Masturbator (http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/giicm/GIICM.html)

[Anoying posts] + 1.

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited October 03, 2003).]

[Jon`C]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DogSRoOL:
And if you tell us you can do this stuff</font>

I can't. It's a secret.

------------------

[gbk]

I figured it out! Jon took the hl2 engine and combined it with the JK resources!! http://forums.massassi.net/html/rolleyes.gif

------------------
Back in Black...

[Jon`C]

Come now, I could never steal Valve's source code.

------------------

[The MAZZTer]

Tell us now Jon`C. You're gonna have to sooner or later, might as well be now. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

------------------
The Mega-ZZTer's Gaming Haven! (http://mzzt.atronox.com/) - Under Construction
NEW! PHP implementation underway!
Website is working again. (Somewhat.)

[This message has been edited by The_Mega_ZZTer (edited October 03, 2003).]

[bradsh]

i wuld ad dx9 2 cog d00dz jk nevar uses my 9800 :S =/ SSS xDDDD honnk

------------------
Ω of 14
Half-Life 2 Central (http://www.hl2central.net): your definitive source for everything HL2!

[bradsh]

If you were actually going to rewrite the engine, the most obvious things would be treating sectors marked as 3do's in jed (not sure if that flag carries over to jkl or not though) as brushes or sommat. This means you dont have to deal with making a 3do for every little block. Also, some better display code. It always bothered me that jk didnt precalc the visibility of sectors: it clearly could have done it at load time (more accurately) if they were doing it in real-time. Maybe some sexisexi shaders? :P

Enough of my pointless, incoherent, hopeless dreams.

------------------
Ω of 14
Half-Life 2 Central (http://www.hl2central.net): your definitive source for everything HL2!

[bradsh]

Oh yeah, I dunno how I could forget this, but: MESH SMOOTHING. Kind of dumb with jk's lowpoly models, but still.

------------------
Ω of 14
Half-Life 2 Central (http://www.hl2central.net): your definitive source for everything HL2!

[Emon]

omg u need a cob varb 2 gener8 level 4 me cuz I r teh lazie lol.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[Checksum]

Ooh, sprites that are like planes instead of sprites that are overlaying flat textures.

The 'transfer of player controls' and 'adding your own functions' would be pretty tight.

------------------
Duel Zero (http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum5/HTML/010438.html) key count: 15 done, 10 to beta release, 35 to final release.

[DogSRoOL]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jon`C:
I can't. It's a secret.</font>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Wait... I've got it... Jon'C got a job working for LEC! http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

Well...

...Maybe not.


------------------
"The Just shall live by faith." - Galatians 3:11
I am DogSRoOL; Lord of the Onion Rings
The Giant Internet IC Masturbator (http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/giicm/GIICM.html)

[Anoying posts] + 1.

[Jon`C]

I can't tell you that.

It's a secret.

------------------

[Jon`C]

OMG HINT:

The Secret has a compiler, a working file system, a process scheduler and a BASH clone.

OMG THE SECRET.

------------------

[gbk]

Your writing a command line OS? http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif


Ok, fine, but what the hell does that have to do with JK?

------------------
Back in Black...

[Verticae]

OMQ A JK OS!!!1

------------------
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Thrawn42689:
GothicX is the best n00b ever.
</font>

[Emon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GBK:
Your writing a command line OS?</font>

Think again. What he mentioned are things that most modern games have, or something close to.


------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[DogSRoOL]

How long must we wait!?

You're so mean, Jon'C. http://forums.massassi.net/html/frown.gif

------------------
"The Just shall live by faith." - Galatians 3:11
I am DogSRoOL; Lord of the Onion Rings
The Giant Internet IC Masturbator (http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/giicm/GIICM.html)

[Anoying posts] + 1.

[gbk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Emon:
Think again. What he mentioned are things that most modern games have, or something close to.</font>

Ok, whatever. Your writing a new engine. From scratch, I assume. But why in the world would a game engine need a bloody filesystem?

------------------
Back in Black...

[Emon]

Now you're thinking too big...

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[MysteriousSith]

Ummmm... JK uses some kind of console we don't know about...

probably not but now that i have read this thread, i would like to know the secret cause now im interested

------------------
"The quality of the levels you make is determined by the skill of the person not by the editor in which they use!"
-Michael Kyle

[Hell Raiser]

It's obvious, somebody is writing an engine to replace JK.exe, much like there was a Dark Forces replacement. (never released) The programs in the JK community show that the levels can be rendered, keyframes played... the only thing they'd need is a cog interpreter (hence this post, they code in their own things as well) and trying to get the physics and flags and properties and whatnot down. (which I'm sure isn't a big deal)

I've always wanted better netcode myself. OMFGZ, LIEK, TEH THANG LIMIT! UP IT TO A QUADJILLIONBILLIONTHOUSANDTWENTYTWO!!!!!!

Ok, yea. http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

------------------
-Blessed Be-
Nothin says lovin like somethin from the Coven
DBZ: The Destruction is Real (http://www.hellraiser64.com/tdir)

[Emon]

I think we have a winner!

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[The MAZZTer]

If you ARE writing an engine, make it work over my proxy. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif j/k, I know that's pretty much impossible...

------------------
The Mega-ZZTer's Gaming Haven! (http://mzzt.atronox.com/) - Under Construction
NEW! PHP implementation underway!

[This message has been edited by Gebohq (edited December 28, 2003).]

[herb]

Ah, a replacement to jk.exe. I want OOP for Cog.

[This message has been edited by Hebedee (edited October 05, 2003).]

[gbk]

I thought Cog WAS OO... :P

------------------
Back in Black...

[Emon]

...you're kidding right?

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[gbk]

Yes. Notice the ':P' bit.

------------------
Back in Black...

[Wave_Of_Mutilation]

I was under the impression that the LEC agreement for terms of use or whatever didn't allow modification of the games exe...or is this an entirely new exe that gets around that?

------------------

[DogSRoOL]

Maybe LEC finally realized jk's engine sux, and finally decided to let people 'modify' it.

------------------
"The Just shall live by faith." - Galatians 3:11
I am DogSRoOL; Lord of the Onion Rings
The Giant Internet IC Masturbator (http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/giicm/GIICM.html)

[Anoying posts] + 1.

[bradsh]

Too bad PHP isn't somehow usable. *sigh* It is a wonderful language (esp in v5 with real OOP), but the actual compiler is just now getting off the ground, and excessively slowly.

Perhaps teh JON`C could implement some other language, and create a cog convertor? :P

Actually, you could probably program a lexical parser to do what j00 need.

------------------
Ω of 14
Half-Life 2 Central (http://www.hl2central.net): your definitive source for everything HL2!

[bradsh]

Good luck getting everything down though. One of the things I would also recommend: if JED leaves it's lights in the JKL's (I think it might) you could use them for model lighting, as well as real time shadows. And now, good sir, I have passed from reality to dreams.

------------------
Ω of 14
Half-Life 2 Central (http://www.hl2central.net): your definitive source for everything HL2!

[herb]

Good idea, Brad.

[Jon`C]

Bump.

------------------

[Emon]

Hump.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[lucky_jackpot]

Will this mean both concave and convex sectors http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif lol

True versatility http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif lol - forget about all these "brushes extravagance" http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

-Jackpot

PS: Could be just me, but are we going slighly off-topic? Aren't we now talking about how we could improve the engine, rather than the programming language http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

------------------
Are you feeling lucky, cuz if you are, get your hands off me... ;)

"Life is mostly froth and bubble,
But two things stand in stone,
Kindness in another's trouble,
Courage in your own"
("Ye Wearie Wayfarer" - by Adam Lindsay Gordon)

[Jon`C]

The sectors are convex for very good reasons. If I were working on something like this, I wouldn't change it.

------------------

[The MAZZTer]

lucky_jackpot: Sectors are convex because of optimizations in today's engines, concvae sectors produce weird rendering errors.

Surfaces are convex because of the way they are texutred by engines... concave surfaces tend to have texturing and collision errors.

If an engine allowed concave surfaces and sectors, ir would have to have alot of code that would only serve to promote what I believe is something of a "bad habit" anyways. And it would be Über slow.

------------------
The Mega-ZZTer's Gaming Haven! (http://mzzt.atronox.com/) - Under Construction
NEW! PHP implementation underway!

[This message has been edited by Gebohq (edited December 28, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by The_Mega_ZZTer (edited October 06, 2003).]

[Jon`C]

er... not exactly.

------------------

[lucky_jackpot]

*cough*humour*cough http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

It was just joking as a means of comparison between JK's "sectorially" (wow - new word http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif ) based engine, and JO/JA's "brush" based editing approach http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

-Jackpot

------------------
Are you feeling lucky, cuz if you are, get your hands off me... ;)

"Life is mostly froth and bubble,
But two things stand in stone,
Kindness in another's trouble,
Courage in your own"
("Ye Wearie Wayfarer" - by Adam Lindsay Gordon)

[bradsh]

JK allows concave sectors, the physics engine does not. It is perfectly fine to make something concave, just make sure you dont make it possible for the player to enter it.

------------------
Ω of 14
Half-Life 2 Central (http://www.hl2central.net): your definitive source for everything HL2!

[This message has been edited by oSiRiS (edited October 06, 2003).]

[Emon]

Or other objects.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[Hell Raiser]

Oooh, syncronization of player stats/flags/ect ect that isn't usually syncronized would be nice.

------------------
-Blessed Be-
Nothin says lovin like somethin from the Coven
DBZ: The Destruction is Real (http://www.hellraiser64.com/tdir)

[Jon`C]

Is there any reason that could break anything that works in normal JK?

------------------

[Emon]

I don't recall JK's netcode being very intelligent. It syncs stuff regaurdless of whether or not there have been changes, a consequence of P2P architecture, I think, or one of. I'm too tired to put thought into it.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[Tazz]

I'm curious, Jon 'C, where are you in your quest for a new JK engine? I'm assuming you're just gathering data right now, not programming yet. Am I right?

------------------
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

-Tazz

[Jon`C]

Nope.

------------------

[Hell Raiser]

*violently convulses from ¹confusipation*


¹Confusion + Anticipation

------------------
-Blessed Be-
Nothin says lovin like somethin from the Coven
DBZ: The Destruction is Real (http://www.hellraiser64.com/tdir)

[SaberMaster]

JK doesn't seem to sync to many things, but from what I've seen, it tries to be intelligent about it. For example, a player's position is only sent out if it has changed more than ~0.2 JKUs in the last second. Take two computers on a network, play an MP game with them, and gently tapping the up arrow, see how far you can get without your player moving on the other computer's screen.

I don't think JK tries to sync things in a level besides the player, just their creation. Most things after that are handled locally. And the most bandwidth-consuming processes are probably forwarding event messages to the server, and running scripts (without 0x240) which use verbs that make JK sync their effect.

LAN gameplay has always been slower (as far as latency) in JK than it should be, it doesn't seem that JK is syncing anything more than it does for an internet game or a 10-BaseT network.

------------------
Author of the JK DataMaster (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html), Parsec (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html), Scribe (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html), and the EditPlus Cog Files (http://www.geocities.com/sabersdomain/files.html).

[This message has been edited by SaberMaster (edited October 08, 2003).]

[Hell Raiser]

*hump*

------------------
-Blessed Be-
Nothin says lovin like somethin from the Coven
DBZ: The Destruction is Real (http://www.hellraiser64.com/tdir)

[gbk]

HR, why did you revive this thread? http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif

------------------
Fight the future (http://12.220.251.111/ol/cogpad/cogpad.html).

[Jon`C]

Because it's magical!

------------------