Lately, somebody told me that it was possible to use a grappling hook to attach to assigned surfaces. I'm really skeptical on this one, because I've tried searching on topics about this in the past. I should have asked about this one though, since I'm still curious. Is it even possible to do this?

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Pumpkins are the only living organisms with triangle eyes.

the last time I checked, grapplinghooks could attach to any surface...

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I am _ Ace_1 _ , and I approve this message.

I think he means ONLY attach on assigned surfaces. I don't see why not, you'd have to define either surface numbers or textures that are allowed to be attached to so you'd need a level based, non-mod grappling hook for the best results.

An example of a way to do a level-based grappling hook: a simple cog that runs in your level that watches for when your field light turns on, then turns it off and fires the grappling hook. Using the fieldlight again would detach the hook. The hook would only reel you in if it hit an allowed surface.

QM

P.S. - I suppose I could whip up some code for this if this is what you're looking for.

I'm sure this would be possible. It could be done with some sort of mod, of course, if you wanted. Or it could replace an item. In those cases, you could use a level cog, use a couple triggers, one to send the planned surface attachment to the level cog. Have the level cog determine if it's one of the assigned surfaces, and send a reply.

If you wanted to do it with existing mods, it'd be more difficult, but I believe possible. It'd check for things attaching to surfaces, if they're grappling hooks, then detach them. I think that would work anyways.

I haven't done much with grappling hooks, but I'm sure this is possible. It may require use of one of the cogs for determining which surface a thing has touched, but I don't know.

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_ _ _____________ _ _
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[This message has been edited by LKOH_SniperWolf (edited August 29, 2004).]

You hit the nail on the head, QM. Thanks for offering to write up the cog coding for this. I'm extremely grateful, since you're going to take the time to do this, lol. Your idea of the grappling hook concept is perfect, except I'd like to add one more thing. When the player is finished 'reeling in' to the assigned surface, would it be possible for the hook to detach automatically? Also, I'm working on my own grappling hook, so yes, it's a level-based hook. I plan to have three parts for the grappling hook. The handle, the wire, and the hook. Knowing this, is the cog still possible?

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Pumpkins are the only living organisms with triangle eyes.

With a level based grappling hook I should be able to do the following (I'm including stuff you specifically asked for):
- Fire the hook using nearly any pre-existing item or force power (tell me which you want to use of the following: Fieldlight, IRGoggles, nearly any force power)
- Only attach to certain surfaces. Tell me the surface numbers, texture(s) or tell me to leave these options available for you to input later.
- Detach once you reel in.
- You said you modeled a handle, do you want the player to NOT be able to use a weapon while using the grappling hook? It's fine if so.
- Do you want the player to be able to detach the hook early before reaching the destination? (Like, by using the item/fp that fired the hook in the first place.)

I think that covers it. Reply here with the answers and I'll get cracking. Shouldn't take more than a half hour to code plus a couple fine-tunings. List the names of the 3do's you'll wanna use for the hook/rope/handle and I'll whip up the cog and templates. Pictures of said models wouldn't hurt.

QM

[This message has been edited by Quib Mask (edited August 31, 2004).]

Well, first off, if you've ever played Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, then that's great. That's exactly what kind of grappling hook I want. Well, the hookshot, to be more specific, lol. If you haven't played the game, oh well. It just makes it harder to explain. My model will come close to looking like this:

http://www.zeldalegends.net/gallery/categories/Ocarina_of_Time/Official_Art/Items/media/hookshot.jpg



I'd prefer it if the grappling hook replaced the Bryar Gun, but if that isn't possible, I'll go with the field-light.



I want the grappling hook to attach to one texture, which will be called 'grapple.mat'. Other textures, no.



Bingo.



Actually, I was modelling one, but all my Jedi Knight work was on a different computer. Due to some problems, I had to take it to the service store, and I should get it back within the next 3 days or so. Can't say for sure though. I might have lost all my data, but either way, I'll get back to you on this model.



Yup. Here's an idea. Once I shoot the grappling hook, it'll only shoot a certain distance (say...twenty feet), and after that distance, the hook will stop and reel back in. Possible?

By the way, I'm quite new to putting together 3do's, such as the hook attached to the rope and the rope attached to the handle. Not quite sure how that works, but I'll eventually figure it out.

Thanks again, Quib Mask, lol. Glad to have someone like you helping. =]

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Pumpkins are the only living organisms with triangle eyes.

I've played all zelda games into the ground, so I totally get the hookshot concept.


Okie dokey, this will work fine under the following two conditions:
1. No traps, ONLY players use the projectile +bryarbolt
2. If the player is using a mod, the bryar replacement must use the +bryarbolt template
Basically, don't make traps shoot +bryarbolt and there's the chance mods could disable the use of the grappling hook.


Shouldn't be a problem.


Easily doable and I did this in a level based grappling hook I made years ago. I'll test distances to find what I personally think works well. After you see it in action tell me if you want it to be longer/shorter range.

As for the 3do's, you'll want a seperate model each for the handle, rope/chain and hook.

I have enough information to get started, but I'm entertaining guests tonight. I should be able to slap something together tomorrow afternoon/evening.

QM

If you've seen how the hookshot operates in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, that's great, since that's what I want my "Dream Grappling Hook" to be.

As for the handle, I'm working on that part right now on this computer, since I don't have the patience to wait for my computer to get fixed. I finished the hook part (which was way too easy, lol). As for the chain...I don't know. I'll have to figure that part out (how to make the chain extend out of the handle, like in Ocarina of Time)...Unless that part is done in cog or templates?

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Pumpkins are the only living organisms with triangle eyes.

Don't worry about animating it, just model a hook, chain and handle seperately. Quite a bit of it will be "animated" through templates.

QM

Ok, here's what I've gotten done this evening:
- bryar fires the grappling hook
- hook has a maximum range
- hook detaches when you reach it
- the hook can be detached early (fire bryar again)

I've almost got the "can only attach to a certain mat" part working, basically just making 100% sure it works.

I still need 3D models for the hook and such. If you can't get me any by tomorrow night I guess I can set up some placeholder models.

Leave a message here if you e-mail me anything.

QM

Heh, here is a screenshot in JED of the hookshot handle: http://www.existencenexus.net/jkfiles/showcase/JEDHookshot.jpg

I've run into a problem though...the handle...it's going to take me a while to figure out how to attach the handle of the hookshot (I haven't scaled it yet, lol).

I'm using this picture as a reference for the 3do: http://www.zeldalegends.net/gallery/categories/Ocarina_of_Time/Official_Ar t/Items/media/hookshot.jpg

Thanks for the help. =) By the way, what did you mean by 'placeholder' models? Replacement models until I get mine working? I'm only asking because I don't understand that term, lol.

[This message has been edited by Shockaz (edited September 02, 2004).]

Just a random gun/lightning for rope/ugly hook tip that you can replace with your models later.

QM

Well, would it be a better advantage if I send you my 3do models (When I finish them, that is)?

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Pumpkins are the only living organisms with triangle eyes.

It won't matter that much, but I'll need the 3do's either way to properly finish up the animation coding and stuff.

QM

You haven't said anyhing in a little while. Here's a test level with the level-based hook. I didn't include 1 texture only hooking, or any specialized animations... and it's Canyon Oasis (don't HATE me!) but the bryar is replaced with a hook. Make sure you like the "reeling-in" physics.

After you get me the models I'll get them set up and glue the "only attach to X texture" code on.

QM

Awesome! I love it! I have a few questions though. Would it be possible to have the hookshot have the animation of reeling back in if it doesn't hit a wall? Also, would it be possible to have the player stop moving when the hookshot is fired?

If those two things aren't possible, that's okay. Anyway, I would be done with the hookshot model by now, but I'm having some cleaving problems. I need to get the plugin that allows me to cleave in a better way (it's not on massassi right now, but I know SithLord has the plugin, so I guess I'll ask him for it), so give me a few days and the model should be done by then =]

I was trying to think up a good looking way of having it reel back in, but yeah it could be done.

Forcing you to stand still will be a walk in the park. Consider it already added.

QM

I'll do any models, if you'd like. I need to model a hookshot, anyway.

JediKirby

I've been using this picture here as a reference for a model of the hookshot: http://www.zeldalegends.net/gallery/categories/Ocarina_of_Time/Official_Art/Items/media/hookshot.jpg

Jedikirby, when I looked at your other posts (where you showcased your 3do models), I was stunned. I assume you are using a program other than JED to make those 3do's. I am curious as to what program you are using to make those models. It would definitely be an useful program for me. :p Anyway, I'm going to abandon my attempted hookshot 3do if you're planning to make a hookshot model similar to the picture I mentioned earlier. Heck, you have more experience at making 3do's than I do, so I'll accept your offer to do it!

Thanks a bunch!

Augh! Well whoever, get me a hook, chain and handle and I can have the hookshot done in 30 minutes.

QM

Model Name: Hookshot.ms3d
Time: 20 Minutes
Polygons: 620 Tris
Game: JK/MotS

Instructions: The file needs to be opened and resaved in JED before anything. Next, it needs to be resized, and resaved.

The 'hook' layer is the projectile.

The 'base' layer is the area between the handle and the arrowhead.

The 'handle' layer is... the handle. dun dun dun.

I suggest you use a sprite, or trail a chain sprie behind the hook, because a model will break the thing count, and cause mucho-lag. Of course, I can make a sequence of linked chain if you think it might be worth risking.

JediKirby

...Simply...beautiful...Better than anything that I've ever done in JED. *drools* Now THAT'S a hookshot.

I doubt I can texture the hookshot though...lol. If I even attempted doing it, I'd ruin JediKirby's awesome work. I feel useless right now since I'm hardly doing anything worth crap to help you guys out on this mini-project.

I'm not too worried about the chain for this particular grappling hook breaking the thing count, or even getting close. If you could come up with a pretty little segment of chain, that'd be marvelous (lightning just doesn't do it for me ;)). Smushing the model into a usable internal model as I'm typing this. This should be a real treat.

Will probably have this done tuesday, am expecting to be busy tomorrow and really need to sleep after I play with this model a little.

QM

Model Name: Chain.ms3d
Time: 5 minutes
Polygons: 720 tris (like an estimate 400 quads)
Game: JK/MotS

The model has more polygons than the gun, so if you need a lower polygonal set of chains, I can easily mock some up in 5 minutes flat, so don't worry about asking.

The chains are 6 links long, 5 complete, 2 impartial. The chain will 'tile' so to speak. The shorter end (of the partial link) is meant to be connected to the arrowhead, and the longer end is meant to be comming from the hookshot. This will look the best, as if the chain is connected to the arrowhead, and the chain is comming out of the base.

The textures should be pretty simple for this model, as long as you keep a simple blue, and the blue design along the inside. I'd suggest solid colors with shading, since it's sort of a cel-shaded weapon, anyway.

JediKirby

I just spent 10 minutes texturing the models with solid colors. I doubt you'll want to use them, since they look rather bland, but it looks ok with my solid colors, so I'm sure if you vary different areas, you can get it working fine.

As well, if you want to take the time, you can durastically decrease the polygon count by going through and multi-selecting 2 surfaces on the same plane, and merge them.

See, MS3D uses Triangles, and splits even flat surfaces into triangles. If you were to go through and merge surfaces that are made up of 2 triangles, and were on the exact same plane, you could lower the polycout, and make the model work internally and externally.

JediKirby

Jedikirby, I just have to say that chain you made looks really nice. Good job.

Anyway, will this cog work in Multiplayer?

Just got back from falling in the ocean.

Yeah, I'm specifically making it to work in multiplayer (which means it'll also work in single player if desired).

QM

I just wanted to correct jedikirby's misconception that sprites do not add to the thing count. Sprites are things. Everything that isn't architecture is a thing, really...particiles, sprites and 3dos. The thingcount is a cruel mistress.

Nice models though, should look pretty impressive in game.

Any time, just ask. The worst I can say is 'no.' :-P

Bump: Any progress? I'd really like to test this once it's all textured and in game.

JediKirby

Just busier than I expected. I fell in the ocean the other day, and ruined my cell phone and some ID cards/atm cards and have been busy getting new ones. It's all almost done I guess. I tried texturing but just suck rocks at it too badly, so someone will have to texture the resized models after I post them, but it'll all be done. I'd say give me 'til tomorrow evening, I have errands to run after I finish checking this forum.

Basically I just gotta finish the chain template/model resizing, the hook retracting if it hits it's max distance, and immobility while firing, all of which shouldn't be too tough. Then double check it in multiplayer and it's good to go.

QM

*bumps this topic back to the top*

Bumping and letting you know I'm not gone. Just been busy.

QM

I can't stand it any longer! *Puts gun to Quib Mask's head* Finish it!

Haha. Just kiddin' bro, I'm patient. Thanks once again for all your help Quib and Kirby.

Any progress?

I apologize for that statement. (Maybe this is why you haven't finished the project?)


Anyway, I'm bumping this since this thread is more than two days old.

Ack sorry! No that post didn't bother me, it's just the newest EverQuest expansion is out and I'm grinding to level 70. =/ Heh, heh, heh... (oi I need sleep).

QM