I was thinking about something. Most levels are linear in story and gameplay unless they are really complex and long. Most of the time they aren't really complex and long. That brings up the debate in use of in-game choices.

In a cutscene you could have the player make choices about the game scenario. Lets say you have Kyle at a bar trying to find a criminal's ship and the criminal. Lets name the criminal Bob. Kyle needs to ask a bartender. Some choices of questions/commands could be:

1. You will tell me of a criminal named Bob.
2. I'm a Jedi and I don't care to swing the saber. Tell me where Bob is or you will regret it.
3. So, any dangerous people I should stay away from around here?

Each option would have a different affect on the outcome of the situation and the rest of the level's story. Option 1 could be used with Force Persuasion to "persuade" the bartender into telling where Bob is. The bartender would comply and give the location of Bob without resistance. Option 2 would be considered a threat by the bartender, and the bartender might respond by alerting a gang to kill Kyle. Option 3 would be another way to get the bartender to tell where Bob is, but it doesn't require force powers or threats.

To code the options someone would develop a script of the cutscene and midway through the cutscene they might write:


The options and the appropriate button for Kyle to select that option would be written in the subtitles/captions of the cutscene.
"option1", "option2", and "option3" are scripts that have code for the event that happens when an option is picked.

I just wanted to bring this up to editors that might want to experiment with this. Any comments/ideas/suggestions? PLEASE REPLY!





[This message has been edited by JDKNITE188 (edited January 03, 2003).]

It's certantly a good idea. I'm working on a singleplayer episode for JO that's going to involve more character interaction, but a Deus Ex style system with what we have available, I think is shooting a little too high.

Its just in concept. I am glad SOMEONE replied to the idea. I don't even know if you can execute those kind of scripts with binds. Ah, well, in time it might happen!

You could do something like this:

seta option1 "exec option1.cfg"
seta option2 "exec option2.cfg"
seta option3 "exec option3.cfg"

Make some custom menus that allow you to bind keys to those commands, using vstr option1, option2, and option3.

The problem is that it won't be able to interface with the scripts. :\

Hmmm.... yeah, i see what you are saying

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Multiplayer Game Alias: II88BlackOps

Mein Pyar Kiya, such a creative movie title. . .

Ah - if only we had SP code. *sigh*.

Also, here's another idea. Wuold it be possible to have the player determine what the next level would be?

For example, let's say the player's mission is to kill someone in a large office building. The first level would be infiltrating the building. They could either go in through the front entrance, or sneak onto the roof. Then, in the next level, they would start off where the previous level left off. Would you need to make two differnt level 2's?

the level-loading is activated by a trigger, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to have two exits to different levels...

You most definatly can have multiple level exists. We could even have multiple maps for one mission, like EF, Deus Ex or Half-Life. Unfortunatly, that part of the target_level_change broke when it was ported.

Brilliant idea, would be great.

I loved the RPG style options in Deus Ex in things like conversations and also for which weapon you wanted etc. I also loved the whole money aspect, added another dimension.

One problem with multiple conversations is that it would increase the amount of voice acting you'd need, because you'd need acting for all the different options, my last map went over the 10 meg point for voice samples and any more than that and 56k users are practically excluded....

The fact that the options stuff hasn't (as far as I know) appeared in any Q3 engine games suggests that it isn't easily achievable, and if it is the engine doesn't seem best suited to that kind of thing.

Some map/mods like Darth Arth's ladder maps have options from the menu screen for the new game, and Kyle and the game vary depending on which one you choose, some choices from the menu may be possible (I've been toying with the idea of playing the same map from different characters perspectives).

Another, fairly clumsy way of initiating choices in levels could be to have a key that can unlock various doors, but you can only unlock one, or something like that, maybe to pick a weapon or route or something like that.

Anything that adds to the interaction aspect of JK2 would certainly be very welcome.

Well, Kengo, there is a major difference between the Q3 and Deus Ex engines. Deus Ex was built to support the choice feature during cutscenes; it was widely used throughout the game. I am pretty sure that the coding for those choices was built in somehow in scripts in some kind of flowing fashion. My idea of binds is kind of rugged in the sense that after every choice, there is going to be some text telling the player what buttons they can press. In theory it is possible, but it will be involve a lot of experimenting. Once it is finalized how to do it, it might not be too hard to use the bind-choice process.

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Multiplayer Game Alias: II88BlackOps

Mein Pyar Kiya, such a creative movie title. . .

Well, I just tested out my idea.

Two exits to two different levels is easy to do.

Then I tried something else. I made it so that once you went into one of the other levels you could go back to the first level. That worked fine. But there's one little snag in it. In the first level I put a Repeater in the middle of the room. I picked it up, then went to one of the other levels. I came back to the first level and the repeater was there.

Obviously, the game doesn't do what it's supposed to, which is when you go into the next level, it's supposed to save the level you were just in and then either load up any of it's saves for the next level or just spawn you. CRAP!

Anyways, if anyone wants to just see how I did it, gimme your e-mail and I'll send you a file with the .map and the pk3.

Deus Ex is built off the Unreal engine, and the Quake III engine could support the same style interaction.

Isn't that called a persistant world or something like that? System Shock 2 had it, Deus Ex had it, games like Half Life didn't let you go back to previous levels. A level with two different exits could lead to two different end cutscenes, and procede to two different levels (or just altered levels). This means more work for the mapper, and even if the two branch levels were only slightly altered, each would have to be an entirely different map right? So more filespace too. Still, would be nice to do.

I wish in JO they had had much more interaction....y'know, ask a mechanic to direct you to luke's chamber on yavin, or sumthin... and i wish there had been a higher population of areas....NS streets for example, was that just a long narrow track of concrete structures with no interiors?

And why weren't there any HUMAN bounty hunters/enemies?... It was silly.


Great idea.

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saberopus

Yeah, I guess that would be a persistent world. And the end file would be huge, of course. But, as I said before, the trigger doesn't work quite right.

Now, it could be done in MP to create a large city, using fog and teleporters. And again, the filesize would be quite large, and the compile times would be horrendous.

Teleporters, didn't think of that.

Maybe by making a choice the player should just be teleported to another part of the map seperated from the rest of the original setting. You don't necessarily have to make other maps, and also it would be easy to code if you wanted a persistant world.

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Multiplayer Game Alias: II88BlackOps

Mein Pyar Kiya, such a creative movie title. . .

Teleporters is a really good idea, because if it was all the same map then it would be persistent and stay the same when you went back and forth between sections. You'd just have to be carefulwith things like md3's so that you didn't exceed the limits on a big map, because if it's all the same map then they are all there together.

Also you'd want some way or erasing all the npcs and stuff from a section when you left...then re-appearing when you returned maybe.

I gotta remember to use some teleporters in my next map, they certainly are underused