Hi!
The topic title indicates that I'm going to be asking quite a few questions.

1. Discussion: I find that JK is more open in editing, more free than JO. Reason I think so is because, from the JO levels I've downloaded and played, there isn't much customness like a new door or a door that opens with the work of disabling 4 conduits or shuffling switches, nor have I seen any custom textures, nor making the charecters have any custom movements.

2. Problem: How do the push triggers work? It says

And so I've made a target_push in the direction I wish to fly, and now, how do I link them together?

3. Wonders: I'm wondering... Any chance I can make fun little Visual effects? I saw in JA, the run-away tram, these fun visual effects keeping the cars together in the middle, and I'm wondering, is it possible to do something like that in JO? and how?

/Edward

1. the door thing would require scripting which isn't possible in JO MP.
Alot of people use custom textures but at the same time alot of people don't, just depends on where you look.
I way be wrong but in JO you can't add custom animations. I think you can in JA though.

2. link them by selecting the push brush then the target and pressing ctrl-K.

3. dunno.

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On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."


Grace is the Pleasure of God to magnify the Worth of God by
enabling sinners to delight in God without compromising the Glory of God.
-J. Piper

[This message has been edited by djwguitarman (edited July 05, 2004).]

In JO it is possible to make many new things, but it requires coding and thus, an actual mod, which makes it pointless. COG is immensly powerful for a scripting language, giving level editors the ability to create many new effects and functions without needing a mod. JK will also load the files in a level GOB only when the level is loaded, allowing you to have partial or complete mods as part of a level. Such an example would be the Theft on Nar Shaddaa cooperative.

JA is quite a bit more free in multiplayer, but still not as much as JK. Few games are. Should I write a game engine during college (which I most likey will, that's a good resume stain right there), the file system and modding/expandability functioning would be half based on JK and half based on Quake.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

What they said. If you want to do anything fancy with any object you do scripting. Or else you just use the average.

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You have to look at the big picture. We (as a country) spend more tax money dealing with MS blunders than we do on the software itself. And guess who MS's largest customer is? You guessed it, the government! - Brian
My Personal Site | Remnant Temple Part A | A work in progress

The push didn't work! Maybe it was put on wrong...
It is for an engine to a ship. I have the engine cilinder, a nice flare, and right on it there is a trigger_hurt. Then, inside it (about one grid block on GTK) there is the trigger_push (that extens a whole 8 grid blocks on GTK), which is now connected to a target_push with the speed of 1 million. The target_push is right infront of the trigger_push.

And, could someone give me a crash course on how to make steam? Maybe from that I can do other fancy stuff. who knows...
[edit]also, any possible way of emitting Saber sparks from an object?

/Edward


[This message has been edited by Edward (edited July 06, 2004).]

try useing a target_position or info_notnull

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On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."


Grace is the Pleasure of God to magnify the Worth of God by
enabling sinners to delight in God without compromising the Glory of God.
-J. Piper

None of those worked...

Man, so many questions... And so few answeres... I'm starting on EffectsEd, but there seems to be a problem. I can't see the textures. I have a whole list, but they won't show. e:/gamescd/jk2o/gamedata/base/

E: is not my CD drive, it is the hard drive. I put it in base because when I pressed the Default button, it gave me w:/game/base.

/Edward

Try this tutorial
I've never used effectsED so I can't help you there.

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On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."


Grace is the Pleasure of God to magnify the Worth of God by
enabling sinners to delight in God without compromising the Glory of God.
-J. Piper

Tried the tutorial, but I still didn't get pushed away. Hm... Must I be firmly on a floor for this to work?

you should able to just touch the brush.
shouldn't matter if you're standing still or flying through the air.

Are you sure you conected them int he right order?
You must select the brush then the target, then hit ctrl+K.

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On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."


Grace is the Pleasure of God to magnify the Worth of God by
enabling sinners to delight in God without compromising the Glory of God.
-J. Piper

Cover the brush in the trigger texture, right click and select trigger_push, then create a target_position where you want to land. Deselect everything then pick the trigger brush then the target_position, press ctrl+k and it should work

[This message has been edited by Boco (edited July 09, 2004).]

Details:
I make my engine. Nice Cil. Then I replicate it, make it shorter (8 units) and place it on the end. I texture one side with a flare (nice flame effect, I think). Then, I make a trigger_hurt on that

(of course, the hot flame has to hurt the person), and then inside that there is the trigger_push (about 8 units between the 'walls'). The trigger_push sticks out at the end by 64 units and 64 units later comes the target_position. I deselected it, then I selected the trigger_push, then the target_position, and pressed ^K (Ctrl+K if anyone wonders). So, basically I've done it correctly... Anyone want pictures of how it looks, or maybe a visual on how I did it?

/Edward

well garsh, I'm stumped.

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On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."


Grace is the Pleasure of God to magnify the Worth of God by
enabling sinners to delight in God without compromising the Glory of God.
-J. Piper

Tell me... Has anyone done what I have done? A big thrusting thing and you get thrusted in mid air? Or have they only done Jump Pads? Pad brush on the floor and push thingy surrounding it? I need to know. When that is answered, I'll know, and then get ready for more questions...

OK. I've figured out the secrets to the Pushes. I have to have a push trigger, surrounding an ordinary, collidable brush, and I have to touch that brush to be able to be pushed about. But now, I'm looking back at Bespin and I'm wondering... That place that seemed like the middle, where you had to jump from platform to platform using some air current that comes every now and then, how did they do that push without a brush floor? And I have no BSP to MAP so I can't find out myself...

Something else. Can one change the speed of the trigger?

/Edward


[This message has been edited by Edward (edited July 11, 2004).]

Hello? Anyone able to answere some questions?

I have this feeling that there are more experts around JK than there are around JO.

/Edward

Some of us, like me, know the answers but haven't done any JO editing in so long we can't remember. Check out jediknight.net and their forums.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Make a brush in the area you want the player to be standing when he's pushed. Doesn't have to be touching the floor or anything. Texture it with system/trigger. Right click on it and go to trigger-trigger_push. Now hit 'esc' to deselect everything. Right click and go to target-target_position. Put this in the direction you want the player to be thrown, but not touching the trigger_push. The farther away you place the target_position, the faster they're thrown. Now hit 'esc' again, a couple times, and shift+click the trigger_push, then the target_position, in that order. While they're selected hit ctrl+k. That should link them, and gtk will draw a line between them, with an arrow pointing toward the target_position.

I'm loaning my JA cd to a friend and I haven't really mapped in about 5 months now, so I'm saying all that from memory. It should work, though. The player just has to touch the trigger_push and they'll be thrown in the direction of the target_position.

Im sorry Edward but i havent been checking the editing forums on a regular basis. If you need help with things in mapping u can e-mail me because i still edit quite freuqently in JO and I can help you get pretty good fast. Some advice though: dont rush into all of the things to fast.

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Its peanut butter jelly time!
My Personal Site | Remnant Temple Part A | A work in progress

Folk! Help! I've done something to my level and now I get an error: CM_InlineModel: bad number.

WHAT IS THIS?

/Edward

Well this answer certainly comes late. Most probably too late.

Trigger Push should automagically calculate the push speed so that the pushed object just reaches the target entity (I don't think it matters what type of entity the target is). This calculation should adapt to changes in the CVAR "g_gravity". However, I'm a coder not a map editor and I got no experience as to how reliably the calculation works in practice. But the point to keep in mind is, the target entity doesn't give you the general direction of the leap, it gives you the peak of the ballistic curve of the leap. According to the source code, Trigger Push does not support "speed" or any other parameter for further enhancing the leap.

If you want to tweak the push manually, here's the way to go. Replace the Trigger Push with an ordinary Trigger Multiple. Then create a Target Push entity and locate it anywhere you like (it doesn't matter). Link the Trigger Multiple to this Target Push. Players will now be pushed whenever they touch Trigger Multiple. The strength and direction of the push are controlled by two parameters in Target Push: "speed" (a scalar value) and "angles" (a vector). So, the vector "angles" is scaled with the scalar "speed" and the resulting vector is added to current player velocity. Rememer that Trigger Multiple has a default "wait" of 0.5 seconds (delay between triggerings), so you may want to set that to a lower value.

OK... I did a Multi Trigger, added Target Push, and put an angle and speed and wait in the trigger, then I went to test it and S_RegisterSound: empty name

BTW. Is it even feasible to make JO mods now that patch v1.4 is out? I reinstalled JO lately and dug out my old mod project(*) but found out that a new patch with critical bug fixes had been released without source code for the v1.4 virtual machines. If those server crash issues were fixed in the server VM code, not in the actual jk2mp binary, the server bugs will obviously continue to haunt any user mod based on v1.3... Maybe someone who's been more active knows more about this?

(*) This project is mostly about adding new game types to JO. I'd like to remove the whole concept of "game type" from JO and just provide the map designer new powerful entities that say how the team scores are resolved. I'd also want to introduce (and partially have):
- configurable force power behavior
- weapon behavior
- holdable item behavior
- player classes
- base assets (generators and inventory stations like in Tribes, and command posts and equipment racks like in RTWC/Enemy Territory)
- an optional and fully configurable experience point system where you get better equipment/more force powers and get more skilled with your existing ones as you gain experience; XP would carry over to the next map as configured by the server
- more powerful triggers and other map editor entities which make it possible to create very complex game rules
- physics objects that can be moved around in the map, and tested if they've hit the "goal" (a la Jedi Ball)

I'm still figuring out exactly where I was when I left the project but I do seem to have something ready: I have a somewhat working test map which is basically Streets of Nar Shaddaa turned from a CTF map into a "jailbreak" map... Both teams had jails; killed players respawned inside the enemy jail which would auto-interrogate them and then kill them within a certain time period (giving the enemy team a "capture" point), unless your teammates managed to destroy the enemy generator which shuts down the energy barrier blocking the jail door.

If I get something ready, are there any MP map designers whose primary interest is in fairly complex (but balanced) teamwork? I can't design maps worth crap and beta testing the stuff is very hard without a real complex map project...

Edward: At which point do you get the error message? (When loading the map or when you touch the Trigger Multiple?)

In the multiplayer code version I have (not up-to-date of course, as Raven hasn't provided us with one AFAIK), Target Push and Trigger Multiple should not try to play any sound unless specifically told so, and I can see no bug in the way they handle their sound effects. Uh, frankly while writing this I'm no longer sure you *are* talking about a multiplayer map? Anyway, one thing you can try is to check the BOUNCEPAD flag in Target Push, in which case Target Push should make the same Force Jump sound as Trigger Push.

[This message has been edited by ETI_Caligula (edited August 19, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by ETI_Caligula (edited August 19, 2004).]

(Ignore this, I made the correction into the original post)

[This message has been edited by ETI_Caligula (edited August 19, 2004).]

Another oops. Edward, you said you put an angle and a speed into the "trigger". Was that a typo like mine or did you really add those parameters into Trigger Multiple? That won't work, the trigger only detects when player touches its hit box and then applies Target Push on the player. The parameters must be added to Target Push.

Oh, and as to your "destroying 4 conduits opens a door" problem. Here's a suggestion. I use 3 conduits for simplicity.

"always"-->"relay"-->"relay"-->"relay"-->"usable"
^ ^ ^
| | |
"switch" "switch" "switch"
^ ^ ^
| | |
"breakable" "breakable" "breakable"

Trigger Always tries to use the Func Usable (open the door) all the time, but its signal is blocked by three Target Relays, all initially switched off. Each conduit (Func Breakable), when broken, activates a Target Relay Switch, which will in turn switch on the respective Target Relay. After all conduits have been destroyed, the signal from Always will reach Usable and the "door" will vanish. Func Usable could probably be replaced by a properly configured Func Door to get an authentic opening door effect.

The problem is, at the moment I have only my mod code available, and I'm not 100% sure if it would work the same way with the original code.

Btw. one of the new entities I've written for my mod is Func Repairable, which is like Func Breakable but it will auto-repair itself after a given time, or alternatively it gets repaired if another entity "uses" it, or as a final option, it can be configured to be manually repairable by players (it's possible to configure certain weapons to double as repair tools, currently I allow this for Stun Baton which looks distantly like a wrench). So that kind of entity would make for better conduits in multiplayer where you rarely want anything to remain broken permanently.

Forget it. I got home from work and checked the original code. There is no Target Relay Switch, and Target Relays are always on. Well, I messed up with those upward arrows anyway.