I was over at the gamefaqs Nightshade boards one day (well actually not one day I been arguing with this guy who thinks Shinobi should be a 9.8/10...), and I noticed the amount of fans screaming at the review score their precious game got (7/10 by IGN). They complained that IGN gave the game a low score because it's too hard.
Do you guys think games should have a lower score because it's too hard?

If it's hard to the point where it's unenjoyable, yes, absolutely

Yes and no. Definately a low score if its too easy, and if its impossible, but not merely hard.

I like hard games. Long games even more. But not the impossible...

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The future is here, and all bets are off.

That's what I always think too, but it seems that many people have different tolerance levels. Would you guys say the following games are too hard?

Battletoads: any game in the series
Shinobi (PS2)

If it is tougher than Final Fantasy XI, it definately should lose points. FFXI is reaaaally hard sometimes, especially when soloing. (Really aggarvating when you die and lose over an hours work)

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...

If a game is hard to the point of being frustrating and leads to the destruction of gaming hardware, the score should be docked. A challenge, on the other hand, is fine.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Especially when its to something like a young quadav or a vulture that gets a few lucky shots

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Happy "Diseased" dud: You said I'd be like this guy. Boycotting everything..
Happy "Diseased" dud: ted kazcnisky. That's who it was.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wait, That's the unibomer.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wrong guy.

I have played some games where they are so hard, it a chore to play them, thats where i draw the line.

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Signatures are overrated.

"You can run but you will only die tired."

I don't like my games hard at all. In my view, they should flow, like a novel or film.

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I have become Death, destroyer of newbs.
Statavad-Gita 8:14

I prefer games that are soft. That way, if I accidently bang my head against one, I don't have to go to the hospital to be treated for a concussion.

As games let you save whenever you want, and you start up in that exact spot, and not have to be in designated areas or have to find spheres, I really don't have a problem.



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Only To Keep The Public Happy

yeah this especially gets annoying in games that could easily benefit from the ability to save anywhere at any time without limits (like the console versions of splinter cell which only let you save at checkpoints) some games which use checkpoints for saving aren't as bad though (like Halo which has plenty of checkpoints)

but any game where the slightly below average gamer CANNOT beat the game even on easy then you can lower the score... also like some have said already if the game is too easy it can lower the score... but not as much as too hard


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wang is within all

no and never played it

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wang is within all

Yes! This is my only problem with Metroid Prime, there is about one or two save spots for every level, its really anoyying.

I think Deus Ex (yes that *is* all i can talk about) has an almost perfect level of difficulty, and there are so many ways to engage an enemy.



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Signatures are overrated.

"You can run but you will only die tired."

I like a game to be challenging, but not too hard. If I die too often in a game, I tend to get turned off of playing that game. In a game where you can choose a difficulty level (even better is when you can choose it mid game, and not just at the begining) that tends to not be a problem, or it shouldn't be.

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--Hinch
Terry Hinch's Web Comic
All opinions expressed by Hinch are the explicit views of Hinch, and only Hinch and his 7 other personalities. In the event that said personalities are in dispute, the majority shall prevail. All opinions are held in perpetuity of the present, past, and future throughout this universe, mirror universes, and all multi-verses, including alternate time lines.

I like them to have enough of a challenge that I feel like I've accomplished something when I do well.

I don't mean crap like puzzles either - there's no skill there at all, simply finding out how it works. It's not like the old games, where there was all sorts of technique for how you beat the hordes of bad guys.

That's how it SHOULD be, though. More battle skill, less puzzle.

Oh please, you guys are wimps.

Having the ability to save anywhere could ruin some games by taking the risk out of dying. Gonna make a huge jump that it took you about ten minutes to get to? Well, better make it or you have to walk all the way back there. Saving before the jump would take all the worry out of dying as you could just load your save. It's just simple game design people.

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To think that once I could not see beyond the veil of reality, to see those who dwell behind. I was once a fool.

That's what I liked about having "lives". I'm not to fond of being able to save at any point, as then a transcript of my play would show a perfect game, as if the player was a supercomputer.

To get an idea of how difficult I like games, I'll say that I consider the original Ninja Gaiden series to be only moderately difficult. Anybody who played ANY of the three on the console (not on and emulator) knows that this game can raise one's blood pressure by about 150%.

I LIKE games where it's literally impossible to play it without making a mistake. I think most games theese days are WAY too easy... For another idea of how I like my games, try the only level I ever released... It's at www.df-21.net, and obviously for DF. On "hard", you take tripple damage, and stormtroopers spawn as faster than you can take 'em out, even with a concussion rifle. Nobody has yet to finish it without losing a life. (I've come close, and lose only one on most tries)

I also enjoy puzzles as well as action. The downside of puzzles is that they don't do much for replay value...

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Nes digs around in the trash can.
Nes finds a hamburger!
Nes puts the hamburger in his backpack.

I never finished Metroid Prime. I got stuck on this one really hard boss and each time I died I had to play through part of the level just to get back to it.....it just became, well, not fun. So I stopped and haven't bothered to go back to it. I'm sure the boss would have been easy as pie for a veteran consoler, but I'm relatively new to modern consoles.

I'm a strong advocate for difficulty settings and generally frown on games that have none.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

if a game is impossibly hard, well, thats what cheats are for. I try not to cheat unless I get killed the same way after at least 4 tries.

I used noclip to beat half-life. I kept on getting hit by nilanth's green teleporter balls, so after this happened a few times i got really pissed off and turned on noclip so I could get back to nilanth's room in a hurry. It also let me duck into walls to avoid the green balls in the first place.

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Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited February 08, 2004).]

See, that's why I loved Price of Persia so much, it had the perfect balance (and briliant game design).

I like my games easy, if frustration sets in too often I'll never finish it. Games are just a cheap thrill for me, if I wanted to get aggravated I'd poke myself in the eye.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

[This message has been edited by Spork (edited February 08, 2004).]

not all games have cheats

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wang is within all

like which ones?

(all the PC games i've played have had cheats, its just thast on some you have to take extra steps to enable them.) If you're talking console games then thats something totally different.



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Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.

Alot of computer games can be edited by messing around in it's files, like in Driver, delete every mission, you would have to do, start single player, you atomaticly win, get all the cheats, then put the missions back in.

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Signatures are overrated.

"You can run but you will only die tired."

Checkpoints aren't too bad when done well, Never played halo, but I think Bounty hunter did a good job.

I also don't mind a game thats "easy", aslong as its fun and not boring.


Any kirby game tends to be very 'easy', but they're fun.


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"In the memory you'll find me. Eyes burning up.
The darkness holding me tightly.
Untill the sun rises up."

I like my games short and to the point. I don't want extra game content if it's just useless padding. And I don't want the game to be longer just because I have to reload every single time I get hit (Max Payne!).

I got to the end of Disc 1 of FF8, but gave up because I couldn't beat the damn boss, and there was nowhere to level up. Plus it was so boring and nonsensical, but...

Checkpoints/limited saves are fine, as long as I don't have to replay more than about 5 minutes back the first time. Halo's checkpoints are well placed, as are most of Mafia's.

I thought Outcast did saving really well. You pull out this yellow gem from your inventory, and use it. It would take a few seconds to charge up, while glowing brighter and brighter with an escalating whine (like a flashbulb) culminating a great big flash. This would attract the attention of any nearby enemies, and it was definately too long a procedure (you had to stand still) for mid-combat saving.

Unlimited saves doesn't always help if the game in question is just INSANELY difficult. Towards the end of Homeworld 2 (unpatched) you've got some missions where you were facing a fleet that had about 8 times the strength of your's, even if you've maxed out all the unit caps. *shakes fist at NINE enemy heavy battlecruisers, compared to my mere two*

If I'm given unlimited quicksaves, I try not to use them constantly, but sometimes I can't help myself. I finished the original Deus Ex the first time through in about 30 hours, and since it tracks my saves, I had saved several thousands of times! I eventually calculated it down to about an average of 1 quicksave every 45 seconds...

System Shock 2 was challenging, but if you could find the sample replicator on every level, dying wasn't all too problematic. The Thief games also were well made in this aspect. On harder levels you even had the zero bodycount rule while on easier difficulty levels you could slaughter as many guards as you wanted.

Hidden & Dangerous 2's Hard mode is very hard in itself already. Then they also decided to limit you to three saves per level! It's a bit too hard for me, as a single level (as I usually play stealthily) can take upwards of half an hour to even a full hour. Granted that this adds extra tension, but I still hate being taken out, once I haven't saved in seven minutes, by a lone guard who got a lucky headshot in on me... Grrr... Five saves would be juuust right.

In general, I don't like a game to feel as if it's cheating in order to beat me. If I feel that I've been tactically outwitted by the AI on fair grounds, then I'm just happy.

Actually Mafia's savepoints kinda ticked me off. Everytime you failed a mission you'd end up back at the bar, and having to drive all the way across the city for the umpteenth time just to restart the mission. Borrrring.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

Hey you FFXI people, what server are you on?

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Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

Ragnarok

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Happy "Diseased" dud: You said I'd be like this guy. Boycotting everything..
Happy "Diseased" dud: ted kazcnisky. That's who it was.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wait, That's the unibomer.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wrong guy.

I find that this doesn't just come from difficulty... Jedi Academy is a game that springs to mind... not hugely difficult, but hell, it gets stupidly repetitive once you're into the last few levels... it becomes a hassle to continue, but you do anyway, since you're so close to completing it.



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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

As it was mentioned earlier, game difficulty is dependant on the player -- not the software. What you find hard may be easy to others.

I perfer a challenging game so that I feel I'm acomplishing things, not just mindlessly completing objectives and the like (Then why do I still play CounterStrike....)

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TDiR: The Destruction is Real

I like games that are long and are challenging. I dont like insanely hard games but i do like a good challenge. I hate games where i try over and over until im literally screaming at the computer for being such a b****. A good challenge=good game

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Madquack and Firbnic have a signature.
Remnant Temple Part A beta test.
Light And Darkness

Fenrir.

And fishstickz: You think it's hard now? Wait until your losing over a thousand experience in one death. Heck, at level 8 you can run out, kill a monster, and have totally regained all experience lost. When you lose a thousand experience, you have to run all the way back to the dunes, find a party again, and kill about 8 or more VT/IT monsters to get it back.

Just wait fishstickz, just wait



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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...

Unlimited saves are cool but i always find i save too much. Also its annoying when you save it just as someone throws a grenade at you and you die or something. And your last quicksave is like ages away.

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Sweet irony...

For me it depends on the game - for instance, although I can easliy beat any Tony Hawk's game (UG took me and my housemate about 8 hours or so over a couple of days), the joy of playing it means that the fact the tasks are easy is irrelevant!

On the other hand, I found Deus Ex a little too easy until my framerate dropped like a stone in France and Honk Kong - but again - wasn't too bothered by it, because it was such fun...

...then there are games like Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines - couldn't get past the the first couple of levels, and was so frustrated it went straight to a second hand shop! (compared to CivII which I love and still play all the time!)

Games with unlimted saves are great as far as I'm concerned, because a gamer can do what they like - if they want the challenge, you can for instance say to yourself "I'm not going to save until I've played for half an hour" - the other side of the coin being more like "This is painfully hard, but I can do it if I save every 30 seconds" - Everyone's a winner!

Whoa, tha was long. oops!

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

I find this very interesting, alot of you guys are saying you want game to not be too frustrating (which I agree, why play a game that only puts you through violent fits?), but at a console gaming forum I get different responsives....