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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Is *anything* made "new" better?
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Is *anything* made "new" better?
2003-12-09, 2:35 PM #1
I've just been reading up on the Battlestar Galactica thread, which made me think of remakes, sequels, and adaptations from one medium to another, as well as other ways of making a "new" version of something (usually a movie, but I'll take any media: TV, games, etc.).

What I want to know is: Does anyone else here feel a new thing has been better than the old thing? It seems often, if not all the time, that people have gripes whenever a new adaption, whether it be sequel, remake, etc. is made. So I want to know if perhaps, especially to those who feel such about many movies, TV series, etc., there IS something that can be universally agreed to be better than the original. Preferably, I'd like to refer to the LATEST of anything (that means while you may find "Aliens" to be better than "Alien" would you say the same for "Alien Ressurection"), but that is only a request.

If no examples can be thought of, why do you feel that new adaptations are worse than their originals? Please be explicit in your answers. Thanks [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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2003-12-09, 2:36 PM #2
X2 > X

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2003-12-09, 2:38 PM #3
Hmm, I feel Stargate SG-1 is better than the movie. Oh, and let's not forget Buffy [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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2003-12-09, 2:39 PM #4
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Archimedes:
X2 > X

</font>


I assume you refer to X-men, in which case, there's the number of cartoons, but more importantly, the original comics, that came before either movie. Thus, the comics would be the "old." Still, finding a superior sequel in itself for some can be difficult as well.

And Jaiph: could you tell me why? Not that I disagree, but the reason I asked was to find out what people like (or dislike) when it comes to a different adaptation of the same story.

[This message has been edited by Gebohq (edited December 09, 2003).]
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2003-12-09, 2:39 PM #5
I don't know.. but that planet of the apes remake sure was awful.

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2003-12-09, 2:41 PM #6
Well, lemme use the Dark Forces games series as an example. I like the games in this order: (meh) JO, JA, JK, DF (yey!).

The reason I ike DF, I think, is because of what they did with the older technology. I don't think it's babout how good the game is at face value... it's how it matches up to other games of it's day... and stuff. Anyways, I like DF the best... maybe because I still have the heart of a DOS user? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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[This message has been edited by Gebohq (edited December 28, 2003).]

2003-12-09, 2:42 PM #7
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jaiph:
Oh, and let's not forget Buffy [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]</font>


Hahaha, that movie is CLASSIC!


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2003-12-09, 2:43 PM #8
I'd have to say that I prefer the new(er) miniseries of Dune, as oppossed to the old movie. Dune mind you, not Children of Dune.

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2003-12-09, 2:46 PM #9
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And Jaiph: could you tell me why? Not that I disagree, but the reason I asked was to find out what people like (or dislike) when it comes to a different adaptation of the same story.</font>


Well for SG-1 I just found it a bit more light hearted and involving than the movie. It's not the greatest show ever but as far as TV sci-fi goes it's pretty decent.

As for Buffy, it just craps all over the movie in every way possible. Better cast, better written, funnier, darker, more exciting....um..so yeah basically everything [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]

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2003-12-09, 2:49 PM #10
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BV:
Hahaha, that movie is CLASSIC!


</font>


I remember kinda liking the movie at the time...very very camp, but now looking back and comparing it to say, season 2/3 of the tv series, it just pales greatly.

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2003-12-09, 3:04 PM #11
Why did they have to remake The Shining [http://forums.massassi.net/html/frown.gif]?

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2003-12-09, 3:06 PM #12
Conversation I recently had in #NeS. Feel free to respond from it [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
<Gebohq> hmm... that's a point I hadn't thought of but should have MZZT
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> Game Informer calls it the "Retro Rating" jeje
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> *hehe
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> how games matched up to other games released around the same time
<Gebohq> I mean, I doubt Metropolis or Birth of a Nation (I think it's called) would be nearly as popular if remade today for that reason alone
<Gebohq> and if I wanted to be nit-picky, I'd say the original source for the DF series was Star Wars A New Hope, but I think the distance between them is far enough
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> heh
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> true, but it isn't technically a sequel or remate
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> *remake
<Gebohq> but it is an adaptation. like X-men the movie is an adaptation of the comic series
<Gebohq> and while X2 might be superior to X-men, lots of the original comic book fans I'm sure aren't happy at all with details and such made in the two movies
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> I AM ADDICTED TO TIC TACS.
<Gebohq> "Oh nos! Rogue isn't a teenager!" etc.
<Gebohq> it just fustrates me because I've RARELY heard a new adaptation of an original source to be as good, much less better, than the source it came from. and I feel this pertains in my story writing and possible game development career
<Gebohq> because I fail to see why some people have problems over these new adaptations, other than being perhaps anal-retentive about details, but I find it hard to believe so MANY people are like that, or that they like the original so much they're blind to anything good about something new applied to it
<Krig> It's just because people become attatched to the originals, and anything that comes after is eternally viewed in light of the originals, and never stands on its own merits.
* Gebohq needs to type faster
<Gebohq> heh
<Gebohq> I guess... but is that really the ONLY reason?
<Krig> Well, obviously there's the people who freak out over any little differences, but they're a minority. And also, in modern Hollywood, sequels are by and large done just to cash in on a winning formula, and really are crappier than the originals.
<Krig> And of course because of this, people become cynical and begin to judge all sequels as crap, without actually evaluating how good it is.
<Krig> Though I'd like to think that people who do that are in the minority, also. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]
<Gebohq> right.
<Krig> Generally, though, sequels are the best when they're done by the same people who did the originals. Like the Harry Potter series. Nobody complains that they're going down in quality.
<Gebohq> I find it difficult to examine these things because, admittedly, I most likely have lower standards. I like to think of it as being a good-finder, but I find that hard to prove to people
<Gebohq> and true to that as well
<Gebohq> though your last point doesn't seem to apply to the SW prequels for most
<Krig> Indeed. I personally don't see what so many people seem to complain about in the the movies they hate. I mean, I loved the prequels.
<Krig> And yeah, there's exceptions. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]
<Gebohq> I personally think it has to do a lot with style too. while the content, structure, etc. of something may be the same, new adaptations mostly change the style of the original, usually inadvertantly, which I think makes people angry
<Krig> Ooh, another idea -- no-one is capable of creating 100% awesome movies (or books, or whatever) every time. So when someone hits it big with some movie, odds are the ones they make after it aren't going to be as good.
<Krig> and yeah
<Gebohq> (the change in style can be drastic or subtle of course)
<Krig> yeah
<Gebohq> also trye
<Gebohq> true even
<Krig> I mean, when you make the best movie/book/whatever that you've ever done in your life, and then make sequels, you'd have to be some sort of superhuman being to actually make them better than your masterpiece.
<Gebohq> teehee
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> <Krig> Ooh, another idea -- no-one is capable of creating 100% awesome movies (or books, or whatever) every time. So when someone hits it big with some movie, odds are the ones they make after it aren't going to be as good.
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> I think krig has hit it
<The_JKArena_ZZTer> because only good movies get sequals in the first place (usually)
* CoolMatty has quit IRC (Quit: )
<Gebohq> right
<Krig> Which isn't to say that no sequel can ever surprass the original. It's just harder to do.
<Krig> I mean, X2 is definately better than X1. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]
</font>
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2003-12-09, 3:09 PM #13
Ocean's 11 I guess, considering how badly the original supposedly was (never seen it, but the new Soderberg/Clooney/Pitt one is rather cool).

The "new" Lord of the Rings (i.e. the films) are better than the book, if only because they spend less time torturing you with their banality (yeah yeah Gollum is cool, but he's no Johnny "Watch me totally save this film despite (or possibly because of) the eye-liner" Depp)...

The trouble with most "new" things though is that they only pick "good" things to try and improve upon (unlike the aforementioned), and since they're pretty much going on the lazy "meh, it was good once, let's try it twice" principle, they're pretty much doomed from the start.
2003-12-09, 3:15 PM #14
Cough:

ESB > ANH

Your theory has been shot down. Sorry. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

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2003-12-09, 3:16 PM #15
I thought Red Dragon was better than Manhunter... but I donno, I haven't seen Manhunter in a long time. :x

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2003-12-09, 3:17 PM #16
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cool Matty:
Cough:

ESB > ANH

Your theory has been shot down. Sorry. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

</font>


Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Preferably, I'd like to refer to the LATEST of anything (that means while you may find "Aliens" to be better than "Alien" would you say the same for "Alien Ressurection"), but that is only a request.</font>


No it hasn't :P
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2003-12-09, 3:20 PM #17
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cool Matty:
Cough:

ESB > ANH

Your theory has been shot down. Sorry. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

</font>


Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Correction:
I thought Red Dragon was better than Manhunter... but I donno, I haven't seen Manhunter in a long time. :x

</font>




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2003-12-09, 3:22 PM #18
Oceans 11 was definatly good.
I really don't care a lick for Sg-1. I liked the movie, the biggest thing I don'[t like between them two is the lack a a decent budget on SG-1 it looks campy.

the first Mission Impossible movie with Tom cruse was really good.
The Saint was pretty good as well.

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2003-12-09, 4:25 PM #19
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Ocean's 11 I guess, considering how badly the original supposedly was (never seen it, but the new Soderberg/Clooney/Pitt one is rather cool).</font>


It really was that bad...it was like some kind of gangster musical.

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2003-12-09, 4:35 PM #20
And original NeS is way better than new NeS. Yes. Power to the people.

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2003-12-09, 4:42 PM #21
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tracer:
And original NeS is way better than new NeS. Yes. Power to the people.

</font>


Shiggity-shwa now? I know not the distinction between old and new NeS you speak of, Tracer. I hopes you be jockin' me.
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2003-12-09, 4:43 PM #22
Has anyone here heard the 1/4 rule in the movie industry? It says that a sequel will only make 1/4 of the money of its predecessor. Of course, it doesn't apply to movies like SW or the LotR movies, but if you look at series like Jurrasic Park it makes sense.

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2003-12-09, 5:09 PM #23
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Axle:
I'd have to say that I prefer the new(er) miniseries of Dune, as oppossed to the old movie. Dune mind you, not Children of Dune.

</font>


YES!

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2003-12-09, 5:21 PM #24
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Has anyone here heard the 1/4 rule in the movie industry? It says that a sequel will only make 1/4 of the money of its predecessor. Of course, it doesn't apply to movies like SW or the LotR movies, but if you look at series like Jurrasic Park it makes sense.</font>


If you look at screenplays like Jurassic Park it makes sense. There's only so many ways to mix kids, dinosaurs, Sam Neil and the guy from The Fly without one eating the other before it all gets pretty dull.
2003-12-09, 6:23 PM #25
I have one thought that comes to mind...

Oceans 11

The original sucked in my humble opinion, where as the remake, with Clooney was awesome. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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2003-12-09, 6:39 PM #26
Surrender to the oldschool.

Reasoning? It's classical - well established, with history behind it. There's more knowledge about it, and it's already tried and true.

There's more reasoning, but if you take most examples and examine, you'll see how it pans out.

Hell, if oldschool wasn't better, RPG games wouldn't be about hundreds or thousands of years in the past. Martial arts would be dead, antiques would be worthless, old cars would be sold for recycling money, and we'd all be cold, uncaring, but surprisingly wimpy metrosexuals.

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2003-12-09, 6:51 PM #27
I've never ridden on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride but I'm fairly sure it didn't have Keira Knightley, Orlando Bloom and Johnny Depp as a rock star pirate in eyeliner.

So, that.
2003-12-09, 7:10 PM #28
Deus Ex craps all over Invisible War, douses it with kerosene, then lights it on fire. 'Nuff said.
2003-12-09, 7:16 PM #29
Actually, I hear that Invisible war was a stupendous game...with a not-so-stupendous Engine. But that's another thread. All I know is that Deus Ex is THE proverbial shizzle. For the proverbial rizzle.

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2003-12-09, 8:22 PM #30
Jurassic Park 3 was a terrible movie.
Attack of the Clones is hideously bad compared to the OT.
Enterprise *and* Voyager are sick and disgusting and... ewwww.
Outside of the starship combat, Nemesis is way too boring to be a good Star Trek movie (Undiscovered Country wins this one hands down).
Dr Pepper-derived products are nowhere near as good as pure Dr Pepper.
Mario Sunshine was nowhere near as good as Mario 64.


Now, I'll do the opposite.

The Nintendo Gamecube is infinitely superior to the N64.
The Gameboy Advance SP is better than the normal Gameboy Advance, which is - in turn - better than the original Gameboy.
Hmm. My new cell phone is better than my old one.

What else do I have sitting around here?

Bleached paper is better than unbleached paper.
umm... Magic 8E has a better card design.
Hrm.

Visual Studio .NET 2003 is virtually identical to Visual Studio .NET 2002?

I dunno.
2003-12-09, 8:41 PM #31
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Bleached paper is better than unbleached paper.</font>


You're a filthy ****ing liar!

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2003-12-09, 9:03 PM #32
I liked the original Tracer compaired to this cheaper one we picked up at the blue-light special...

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omnia mea mecum porto
2003-12-09, 11:32 PM #33
The outlet for insanity is gone. Don't blame me.

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2003-12-09, 11:51 PM #34
Who is left to blame?

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omnia mea mecum porto
2003-12-10, 12:19 AM #35
I personally hold Dalton McGuinty responsible.

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2003-12-10, 4:45 AM #36
The Lion King was much better than Hamlet.
2003-12-10, 7:13 AM #37
I actually liked the new battlestar galactica alot more than the old one. The new one isnt so.. cheesy...

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2003-12-10, 7:40 AM #38
New Testament is better than the Old Testament. Old Testament has more gore but New Testament has better characters. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]
2003-12-10, 9:03 AM #39
Prince of Persia: The sands of time is infinitely, immensely, hugely better than Prince of Persia 3d.

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2003-12-10, 9:44 AM #40
Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule. Many remakes and sequels turn out to be quite good while others are simply horrible. If you're looking at it from a statistical standpoint, the majority would probably claim that originals are superior.




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