Ok, recently there's been a lot of forum topics on Jesus, the movie The Passion of the Christ, and other such related topic in our religious world. No problem. Christianity is something we all need to explore, and of course to help deepen our faith, and get closer to God. No problem.
But there's something I just want to bring out that I recently read. Understand that I'm part of the Roman Catholic Church, and I've been Baptised, Confirmed, and been through the Holy Matrimony (to use the terms used by our church). No problem there as well.

Now, to get to this book I've been reading. It talks about God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus all in a different way that almost scares me. Maybe you guys could help me out. Let me build this up.

When spoke to Moses about leading the Isrealites, eventually through the Red Sea, this is how the conversation went: "But," said Moses to God, "when I go to the Isrealites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' if they ask me, 'What is his name?' what am I to tell them?" God replied, "I am who am." Then He added, " This is what you shall tell the Isrealites: I AM sent me to you." Also, before I move on, that in order to love God, we need to love one another, as we love ourselves; because God is within us.

Note the words "I AM" as spoken by God.

Now, Jesus Christ was born into our world for a reason. What is that reason? We all know that. Or do we? Was He sent here to actually die for all of our sins? To save us all from sin? Yes. But does it stop there? No. He is also God's revelation and the revealer. Basically the connection between all of us and God, filled with the power of the Holy Spirit.

What about the Holy Spirit? Saint Paul proclaims, "The love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us" (Romans 5:5).

So, God is "I AM", which, according to my book, us. The power of the Holy Spirit is "poured into our hearts" and gives us life in which we live. And Jesus is our revealer and revelation which makes us realize God, and that he lives within us. So does this mean, with all that I've read so far, that God really lives within us, and that some of us just needs to look inward to find him? Or is there really a Heaven out there that we just need to seek to join God? It's funny, because this book I have doesn't mention Heaven at all. Well, at least so far.

What are your thoughts on this, because this has really jolted my way of thinking in terms of the Holy Trinity.

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I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect.

Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.

[url="mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net"]mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net[/url]Bruintone@netscape.net</A>
Yahoo! Name : jedibruintone77

Well, The Holy Spirit comes into you once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior, then the Holy Spirit comes into you and you are connected to God. However, that doesn't mean that he can't talk to you in the first place, it's just when you accept Jesus, you can start a relationship with him. Don't know how that's scary...sounds awesome to me!

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0_o o_0....ur pants fell off.

I dunno about that book, but isn't the whole point of the Bible that God, a being external to and distinct from us humans, made a way so that he could dwell within us and give us life? As opposed to him just being some internal, integral part of the human soul.

The very short version of the Bible:

1. God creates the universe, gives Man free will.

2. Man uses free will to turn away from God, resulting in Death (ie, if God gives Life, then to turn away from him would be to turn away from Life).

3. God sends Jesus to die instead of Man.

4. God is reunited with Man, and Man returns to Life.

In summary: if you look at the verse you quoted, and the rest of the Bible where it deals with this subject, you'll notice that it talks about God *coming into* people, not that he's already there. An external force entering, rather than a native internal force. A pitcher full of water being poured into an empty glass, if you will, rather than just a glass full of water.

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"Well, it could be worse -- it could be windy!" -popular Canadian saying.

[This is from the viewpoint of a Christian Reformed Church person]

As I understand it, The Holy Spirit is the cool dude who gets you to do Christian acts, Jesus is the one with connections to the Father who we otherwise can't really meet, and they all are one at the same time. Without the Holy Spirit we would be weak Christians; it pervades our beings and lives inside of us, inspiring us. It comes to us when we form a relationship with Jesus. Without Jesus we would have no way to God the Father and also no resident Holy Spirit (I'm not completely sure on "no H.S. for non-believers", I'd have to check my books). Without God we would be in hell (because hell itself is defined as absence from the presence of God).

The concept of the Trinity is very hard to grasp; we're not really capable of understanding the relationship between the different aspects of God. It is for this reason that we throw out names for Jesus like "Son of God" even though he *is* God. We can't grasp it, so we make an approximation. I'm sorry that that is a poor answer .

Many aspects of the Christian faith are hard to grasp, especially in Calvinism (namely predestination). Predestination makes sense, but I think alot of people have a poor understanding of its implications and confuse it with not having a choice in their actions; they confuse it with fatalism.

Predestination is a realization of the idea that God is timeless. He is abstracted from the timeline, and therefore the same God is present at all points of time. He is not subject to change over time or anything like that, because he simultaneously exists in all times. Therefore, he knows how time ends, and he knows what you're going to do. This doesn't mean you don't have a choice in what you're going to do, it just means that God already knew at the beginning of time. It's as if he's watched the movie ahead of time, and we're still busy making it.

And now I've gone and gotten off topic.

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Ω of 14

[This message has been edited by oSiRiS (edited March 09, 2004).]

Is that book you're reading the Bible? If not...well...temper it with the Gospel. IMHO. There's a place for religious books that aren't the Bible, but IMO, you should get the Truth from the Bible, not anything else. If you're confused, go to the Bible for the final word.

FYI - "I AM" is a translation. What it is is a placeholder for the name of God, which, despite all the names he was given, is not written in the Bible. That is why the jews who were sent to arrest Jesus were taken aback when asked if he was Jesus - his reply was "I AM he." Words not heard since Moses.
That is why they are startled, and had to ask twice.

Anyway, it sounds like the book misses the mark a bit. The Holy Spirit, an extension of God, dwells in the hearts of those who accept it, so in that way, yes, you could say part of God dwells in us. But only if it is accepted. Your book seems to take a commonly known thing, and stretch it out and twist it into sacriligious extremes, if I am gathering correctly.


FYI - Best description of the trinity I ever thought of: Imagine if God took 2 pieces of himself, and gave each their own consciousness. You would have 3 distinct entities, yet all part of the original God, and God in their own right.

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Fear is here, where's the beer?

Startled? More like outraged. You don't say the Tetragrammaton, especially not in front of the cohanim

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Superstition brings bad luck.
-Raymond Smullyan, 5000B.C.

The best thought about it I've heard is that there is God the Father, whose self-image is God the Son. Each infinite and one, a contradiction to a finite mind that can't comprehend it. The Holy Spirit is the love of the Father for the Son. The Three always existed.

The Son is also known as "the Word" of God. Jesus is this Word made Flesh. The Father is the Truth, The Word is the revelation of this truth (One and the same with, and equal to the original), and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Love that seeks to protect the word, as Jesus said the paraclete is the Spirit of Truth that reveals all truth and would remind the apostles (and their successors) of all that Jesus taught them, keeping the revealed truth pure and undefiled in the world.

"I AM" is his revealed name, and is somewhat of a refusal of a name (another translation being "I am what I am"). A name defines and limits, and God cannot be limited.

Being infinite, God is often defined in seeming contradictions; separate thoughts that the finite mind can't connect. All looked at like two sides of a coin with only one aspect capable of being fathomed at once.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

Yeah, that too. But still, it proves my point to Snake.

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Fear is here, where's the beer?