Okay! I'm not looking for CUTTING-EDGE TECHNOLOGY OMQ!!!


I just want a nice upgrade from what I have.

(1.4 ghz AMD thunderbird core type...thinger athlon. 384 MB DDR PC2100 RAM, DVD ROM, CDRW, etc etc, AGP4X on the mobo, Radeon 8500LE 128MB. etc. SB Live! 5.1)

Right now, I just want to upgrade the processor, and get a new motherboard.

Recommendations? (maybe a nice RAM brand and which type to get. like whats registered, and unregistered RAM, etc?)
I'd perfer an AMD processor. Since I don't like Intel much.

Oh and, no 64-bit processors, please.

I've got a small budget here (250 or so at max for the proc and mobo, under 200 perfered) so I'd like a decent speed, but nothing uberexpensive.
(I'd settle for something that clocks around 2.2 / 2.4 ghz or so. Something like that.)

Overclocking is nice, but I might not do it. But having the option open to me is good.
Oh and please don't go recommending a video card. I don't need one right now. I'm happy with my current radeon.


Thankies.
And any good 5.1 sound system suggestions would be great too!!

386.



Pricewatch


Newegg



RAM Brand: Corsair or Kingston

any real non BS or ignorant reason why?

Please be helpfull, I don't know what I'm looking for. So don't make a joke and then link me to newegg or pricewatch.
RECOMMEND THINGS AND HELP ME.

To Jim:
Mostly because (last I checked) its out of my budget range

If you find me a sweet deal on a mobo that supports it, and a nice processor for a good price. Then please post it. But if its not within my budget, don't bother.

Unfortunately, getting a new mobo, CPU, and RAM is kinda hard on a $250 budget.

But here are my suggestions anyway, with prices listed:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-394&depa=1
AMD Athlon XP 3000+. It's the Barton 400FSB version, which is definately what you want. If you got for a lower megahertz, the FSB drops. You will also need a heatsink and fan for this one. Also, the price drop for lower speeds is barely noticible until you get into the lower 2400+ range, and those are already beginning to show their age, not to mention that they run on Thorton, not Barton, which all AMD fanboys know is like running your car on 50/50 gas/oil. You want the Barton, and if you go lower, the lowest you can go is 2500+, just so you know.
Price: $145 USD

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-455&depa=1
Asus A7N8X mobo. It's got the awesome NForce2 chipset backing it, which is known for speed AND stability. Also, its onboard sound whoops butt on most sound cards available today, with 6channel surround capabilities and more.
Price: $72 USD

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-478&depa=1
Secondary option for MOBO. It is the higher end version of the last mobo. This one has more features, like even better onboard sound, 2 LAN ports (one gigabit), onboard Wifi with a special adapter you must buy separately, and also has onboard SATA and RAID chipsets, if you have something along those lines. (And yes, it includes cables for SATA drives.)
Price: $83 USD

http://www.crucial.com/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=4B3F7A5FA5CA7304&WSMD=A7N8X&WSPN=CT3264Z40B
One stick of 256MB Ram. Obviously, I recommend at least 512MB, so, if you want to go ahead and do that, you'll need to get 2 sticks of this. (Do not get one stick of 512MB, you will get more performance with the features on those mobos mentioned above by using 2 sticks. The difference is definately noticible.
Price: $52.99 USD X2 = $105.98 USD

Total for everything, with cheapest: $269.99 USD (1 stick of 256, although I would get 2 sticks of 128MB, but I'd recommend getting a lot more ram, you'll need it. Also has the lower end MOBO

Total for everything, with most expensive: $333.98 USD

And that is not including shipping and tax, if applicable. Best I can do without seriously reducing the amount of speed you are going to get. You have to really restrict yourself to bring it into that $200-250 range :/

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-376&depa=0
AMD Athlon XP 2800+--$123
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-478&depa=0
Asus nForce2 motherboard, rather good for what you're looking for.--83$
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-407&depa=0
corsair 512mb stick of PC2700--$74

This doesn't include S&H. I'd reccommend saving till you have around 300 bucks. Because you'll need the extra cash to get anything worth while.

AMD Athlon XP-2400 2.0GHz 256K 266MHz CPU Retail
https://nerdos.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=245&osCsid=96ffe688bfb923d2360b8367e7dc8dd7
$103.99

As far as the motherboard im not sure take a look at these
https://nerdos.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=318&osCsid=96ffe688bfb923d2360b8367e7dc8dd7
Asus A7N8X Socket A/nForce2/DDR400/8X AGP/A&L/USB2.0/ATX Motherboard
$105.99
(I'm not a expert on mobo's so I dont know if that will work for you).

For RAM this might not be the best but its affordable
https://nerdos.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_16&products_id=77&osCsid=96ffe688bfb923d2360b8367e7dc8dd7
512MB (premium) PC 3200 DDR 400 MEMORY
$95.00

Another RAM more affordable
256MB (premium) PC2100 DDR MEMORY
$55.00

The total without tax is $303 (If you get the 512MB of RAM)

The total with the cheaper ram without tax is $263

Just so you know, that CPU doesn't support that ram (the faster stuff). Plus, that processor is the old Thorton type, which is about half the speed of the 2500+.

As for Yoshi's suggestions, they look okay, but I would still look into 2 sets of 256MB. I didn't check newegg for ram, so they might have some cheaper than I have them.

also if he wants to play any new game he will definately want a new video card

i'd try for no less than a 9600Pro but really suggest a 9800Pro or higher

Thanks, CoolMatty!

Unless anyone can think of anything better. I think I'll go with what he recommends.

Its close enough to my budget that I might be able to convince parents to go for it. Even if It means I have to cover 50 - 100 of it.

Oh, and I forgot to mention something...

What is your current Power Supply wattage? If it is too low, you might be in trouble.

I would consider a 350watt bare minimum for a 1 hard drive, 1 cdrom system.

Trust me, my suggestions are the best. You can usually OC a processor pretty well, sinking what, 50 extra bucks for about 100 mhz of clock speed isn't a good idea. Also with the one 512 stick, you can always get another and upgrade to a gig. You lose a bit of performance in the short run, but in the long run, you won't have to replace 2 sticks of memory, or hell, even one stick, to get a gig. Pretty sweet deal.

Like I said, wait for 300-350 bucks to come your way.

And what CM said about the PSU is true. I've heard of many, many people having to go out and buy a new one because they couldn't support everything they had in their box.

Oh and TDK, that nerdo place is fairly expensive. Those stats are a fair bit worse than mine, and mine still come out to be cheaper by about 10-20 bucks. I suggest shopping newegg.

By the way, no offense Matty

No offense taken, but there is a good reason why I picked that 3000+.

It has 400FSB, not 333FSB. That's a quite a big difference in terms of performance, if he can find the money. Its the slowest speed chip with 400FSB.

As for the RAM. He is still better off with 2 sticks. This is why:

The board supports three sticks of ram. And yes, even with three sticks, it will still activate the dual-channel stuff. So even though he has 2 sticks of 512MB, all he will need to get is one more stick of 512MB down the line, and he'd still be using all his ram. No reason to get a 512MB now. And the performance increase is quite a bit, I'm not talking a few frames, I'm talking 20fps+.

No offense, Yoshi.

Meh, my uncle showed me a game (UT2k3, at the time) played with dual channel on, and dual channel off. It was played on a 2100 MHz AMD Athlon XP Barton, 9600 Pro, 2x256 MB Corsair PC2700. There was about 5 fps difference average, 10 in the max and mins. It's not THAT big of a deal, especially if he's going to end up building an awesome computer.

You should try Doom3, which is much more trying of the RAM than UT2003/4 is. That is where I saw the most improvement.

But I won't debate it further. We could spend the next year trading benchmarks supporting both our sides.

But at the end of the day, it'll be easier for him to have two sticks of 512 Dual Channelled than 2x256 and a 512 stick. That way if he ever gets a new mobo, he doesn't have to worry about trading his 256 sticks in for 1 512 stick.

Logitech Z-640

I have them. Cost me 60 bucks a BJs. I think they're about 40ish at NewEgg now.

I love them, they totally own.

Yeah, you can get better, but for anything close to that price? For 40-60 bucks, that set is DAMN good.

I do agree largely with the suggestions made by Cool Matty... An Athlon XP 3000+ provides good power for a 32-bit processor, and is rather affordable. Additionally, that Motherboard is nice; while I don't care too much for NVidia graphics cards, the NForce chipsets cannot be beat (my computer has an NForce 3)

However, I always reccomend using [url=froogle.google.com]Froogle[/url] to check prices... And re-check at other major computer part dealer sites! Another of my favorite stores, [url]www.tigerdirect.com[/url] (up there with [url]www.newegg.com[/url])often doesn't show up on Froogle, despite their prices. I've consitently found that they generally have the least expensive (new retail) processors, though their motherboard prices leave a little to be desired (unless you're looking for an Athlon64 board). For instance, the Athlon64 3000+ Cool Matty quoted (the 400Mhz FSB version) came in at $145US at newegg, but $140US esewhere. However, the motherboards were the other way arround, with them being $83 and $88 respectively. Anyway, I reccomend shopping all the major sites, and repeatedly checking them to Froogle (after all, Google is our favorite site for research and mail, why not shopping?)

As for your Graphics card, it's at least a 8500 (equivalent to a GeForce 3 for you NVidia peoples), so it isn't your performance bottleneck. You can hold onto it for up to two more years, as the new suggested setup will let you play Doom3 at a playable speed of above 10fps (though you'll still have to crank down many settings, as almsot everyone will). As for the memory, I know from personal experience that both mroe and faster is better; I don't reccomend less than 512MB (though 256MB is livable for things like UT2k4 if your budget forbids more), and the performance difference between PC 2400 (266Mhz), PC 2700 (333Mhz), and PC3200 (400Mhz) is quite noticable, roughly equivalent to the difference in clock speed each has.

[edit]Re-read your post. Given the ammount of money you have, you might want to keep your old RAM. Although it is slower, your parents will probably be more willing to cover a slight overflow of budget than a large one, and the RAM could be some weight that can be trimmed.

Oh, and as for overclocking, don't worry too much about it right now. The only thing I'd reccomend for overclocking is your card (which should have a safe increase of arround 5-7% lurking in it). You can overclock your card by using RadLinker, or a similar overclocking utility. Of course, make sure you have a suitable power supply (minimum of 300w, and 350w would be great).

sorry but an 8500 isn't gonna hold out that long... he will be missing out on various things in some games... especially newer games including doom3

the card already shows it's age now even the GF4s are starting to

...I wasn't saying it was going to remain very nice for long, just that it isn't a panic situation. Oddly enough, I've never actually experienced any 8500, just in the 7x00 and 9x00 ranges (and a very good range in those areas). Although it frequently annoys me, I'm still living with my Radeon 7000. An 8500 still is fairly powerful, and meets the minimum for Doom3 (but from what I guess, I wouldn't reccomend less than a 9600XT or 5700 Ultra)

Also, from what I've examined, (andjudging by minimum system requirements), perhaps a possible measure of a computer's predicted performance for Doom3 can be free; Kkrieger seems to have a very similar power draw as Doom3. Of course, while both look amazing, Kkrieger is a free 97KB download, whereas Doom3 is a 2.2GB instalation of a $60US game.

let's put it this way... yeah the video card can hold out but with the other upgrades will be a bottleneck... so go ahead with the upgrades then sell your body to get money for either a GF6800 or Radeon x800 series card... either will be good and last quite a while .... or if you want to spend less you can go 9800Pro and it will last too just expect to not be able to use any AA on the newest games

Yes, I do agree there. With the components Cool Matty suggested, the 8500 will be seriously lagging behind the rest of his computer. Of course, I don't know if he's even using AA in the first place (most screenies I see posted online lack it, for some wierd reason. Seems that if you're interested in posting high-quality pics, you'd crank up all the settings and set AA to x6)

You could always use the cash to build a barebones system, and sell it for 2 times the price you built it for. Though Dell, Gateway, Compaq/HP, and eMachines might sue you for copyright infringement.

You cannot copyright hardware; said companies could not say a thing about such actions. However, having problems with the barebones manufacturers for purchasing hardware for an unintended purpose is always something to consider, though I may be wrong there...

I appreciate the concern about Doom 3.

But frankly, I don't care about it

It seems to be a nice game and all, but it doesn't really interest me much.

I'm much more concerned with Source (HL2)
CS:S runs on my friend's machine ( a 1.4 GHZ with a GeForce2) at low or medium fairly smoothly.

So I don't need "OMQ RADEON X800!111111 o.o!!!"


Also, nottheking, you mentioned an Athlon64 that CM referenced? I thought it was 32-bit.
Not that I'm complaining. I'm willing to go 64-bit if it will fit my budget.

And guys, AA doesn't matter to me much. I usually keep it off for performance.

Also, how do I tell what wattage my Power supply is? I can't remember. I think its 350 or something....

[BTW! Thanks for the sound system recommendation, Phoenix! :D]

There should be a sticker on your power unit

Do you realize how incomparable CS:S is to HL2? HL2 will require probably specs bordering doom 3's requirements to play well. Think abou tit.

But hey, to each his own.

The only thing we're saying, is no current game other than CS:S will run on it. Farcry? Nope, or if you're lucky, looking like JK. UT2k4? Well, yeah, but not without craploads of lag.

Battlefield: Vietnam? HAHAHAHHAHA

KotOR? Once again, craploads of lag.

I think you get the picture.

buy any new 9800pro and there actually underclocked 9800xts... flash the chip and ull be running at XT speeds perfectly and you can overlcock from there if you wish... that is what will get you to see the true beauty of HL2... and the eprson that sadi geforce4 are starting to show there age... **** man the FX series is showing its age...

Actually, I believe the XT is a compeltely re-done XT; their processors are different. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't over-clock a pro to get near-XT performance...

I see no problem with that.

If anyone gives you trouble about copyright infringement, f*** them. Rights management is a synonym for greed.

New? Are you serious?!? Where have you been for the past 2 years? GF4's aren't just starting to loose their state of the artness, they’re gone kaput, diseased! Of course it's no great complement to NVIDIA that their FX line was worse than the Geforce 4 Ti line. :p

It was a joke, Page :p

Obi--wtf are you talking about. GF4s are/were fine. The 4 line was amazing actually, it held up for so long. Much better than the FX line.

the sad part is, the world is getting to be such that I can almost see that happening. People are taking copyright protection to ridiculous levels.

no i am serious the new radeon 9800 pros use what is called the r360 core the exact same core as the XT, the old radeon pros used the r350 which is now no longer in production. When you install the "Pro" it will show up on your comp as an XT... there one in the same your not getting 'xt performance' your getting an 'xt'