Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Bush/Kerry Speeches
Bush/Kerry Speeches
2004-09-26, 6:07 PM #1
I found this article and thought it was very interesting. At this point I don't think Kerry has a chance, unless there's some sort of freak pretzel accident.
2004-09-26, 6:48 PM #2
I don't mean to sound like an *** but, "no duh".

Kerry doesn't have much of a chance at all and whatever he does have he erodes abit more each day.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-09-26, 8:38 PM #3
I love Stanley Fish. Great article, and it really puts to rest the notion that Bush can't communicate.
A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.

art
2004-09-26, 8:47 PM #4
Kerry seemed to have a lot going for him until the race got to be just him vs. Bush.

Yeah he's gonna get creamed.
"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"
2004-09-26, 9:10 PM #5
Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn42689
I found this article and thought it was very interesting. At this point I don't think Kerry has a chance, unless there's some sort of freak pretzel accident.


Magic pretzel theory?
twitter | flickr | last.fm | facebook |
2004-09-26, 9:30 PM #6
I've been saying this from the beginning. The only smart thing Kerry did was get Edwards as his VP candidate. And honestly, I think if Edwards was the Dem candidate, then there would have been no chance for Bush.
obviously you've never been able to harness the power of cleavage...

maeve
2004-09-26, 9:44 PM #7
As, I believe, the first democrat to post, I'm going to say this.

Kerry DOES have a chance. Maybe not from the intelligent consumer, or the most well-informed one, but he still has a chance. Me? If I had to, I'd vote for him...but that's about it. He'd be an okay president, IMO better than Bush, but he still wouldn't be that great.

Anyone who says Kerry DOESN'T have a chance is ignorant. A lot of people are still going to root for him, because they either are too democrat to care, or don't really know better. I've decided that if I had the chance to vote, I wouldn't. Not because I'm too lazy to, or anything, but because I don't feel there's anyone worthy of my vote. Though Kerry's cabinet does make me feel a lot more comfortable than Bush's.

Also, don't forget that Presidents aren't always elected in accordance with popular opinion. Take our current id--I mean president for example.
D E A T H
2004-09-26, 10:36 PM #8
Silly americans.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2004-09-26, 10:47 PM #9
I'll save my vote for some enlightened point in the future when the guy who gets the most votes becomes president. It's a really difficult concept to grasp, I know. Our society will be far more advanced then. Seriously, no one needs my "vote" (if that's what they're calling it now) if the guy who gets the most votes is overthrown.


And why the HELL hasn't this issue been resolved yet? How can this happen in a so-called civilized/industrialized nation? Absolutely ridiculous. I'll vote when this country becomes a democracy. Before then, it would be ridiculous to do so.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2004-09-26, 10:47 PM #10
Well, all I've heard about Kerry is his "I'm not Bush" stuff. The only way he will win is because more people just don't like Bush. That is the only way Kerry will win the presidency.
obviously you've never been able to harness the power of cleavage...

maeve
2004-09-26, 10:52 PM #11
It's a good thing I can't vote yet. I don't envy those who have to. Oh god how I don't want bush to be president again, but the other option is so unappealing it makes me want to vomit.
Warhead[97]
2004-09-27, 5:10 AM #12
Quote:
Originally posted by BobTheMasher
It's a good thing I can't vote yet. I don't envy those who have to. Oh god how I don't want bush to be president again, but the other option is so unappealing it makes me want to vomit.


Look at it this way; You have to pick between the guy who might screw up the country and the guy who's proven he has, and will screw up the country.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-09-27, 7:19 AM #13
Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
I'll save my vote for some enlightened point in the future when the guy who gets the most votes becomes president. It's a really difficult concept to grasp, I know. Our society will be far more advanced then. Seriously, no one needs my "vote" (if that's what they're calling it now) if the guy who gets the most votes is overthrown.


And why the HELL hasn't this issue been resolved yet? How can this happen in a so-called civilized/industrialized nation? Absolutely ridiculous. I'll vote when this country becomes a democracy. Before then, it would be ridiculous to do so.


God. Dammit[/i].

That argument is so horribly flawed that it's not even funny. Gore won the national popular vote, but with respect to each district, upon which the electoral college must base its vote, Bush won the most. Take you damn Oscar, Mr. Moore, and get the Hell off the stage.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-09-27, 8:02 AM #14
America has never been a democracy. America is a republic.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2004-09-27, 8:48 AM #15
Or is it a democratic republic?!?! :o
twitter | flickr | last.fm | facebook |
2004-09-27, 9:20 AM #16
Hello, America. Please don't vote Bush. Think of the rest of the world. Thanks,

-Tracer
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2004-09-27, 9:46 AM #17
Quote:
Originally posted by Mort-Hog
America has never been a democracy. America is a republic.


On the majority of federal-level issues, yes, but when you get down to the state and/or municipal level, it becomes more democratic.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-09-27, 9:57 AM #18
Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfy
God. Dammit[/i].

That argument is so horribly flawed that it's not even funny. Gore won the national popular vote, but with respect to each district, upon which the electoral college must base its vote, Bush won the most. Take you damn Oscar, Mr. Moore, and get the Hell off the stage.


No duh. I know how it works. :rolleyes: I'm asking why we haven't gotten rid of the electorate college yet, since it allows the winner to lose.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2004-09-27, 10:40 AM #19
I'm voting for Kerry. But at this point, I'd vote for a deflated dodgeball if it had the best chance of beating Bush. I say that and I'm pretty much a republican.
-El Scorcho

"Its dodgeball time!" -Stormy Waters
2004-09-27, 2:27 PM #20
Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
No duh. I know how it works. :rolleyes: I'm asking why we haven't gotten rid of the electorate college yet, since it allows the winner to lose.


Why do people seem to think that this is the first and only time such a thing has occurred? It isn't common, certainly, but it also isn't without precedent.

http://www.heptune.com/preslist.html
May i direct your attention to this website, specifically:

Quote:
    Presidents who lost the popular vote but won the electoral college vote
  • Rutherford Hayes - Samuel Tilden won the popular vote, and probably the electoral college vote, but the results were fixed to give Hayes the majority.
  • Benjamin Harrison - incumbent president Grover Cleveland won the popular vote
  • George W. Bush - Al Gore won the popular vote. The electoral college vote was thrown into doubt by peculiarities in Florida's election, and the election was decided by the Supreme Court when they stopped the recount.
    Presidents who won neither the popular vote nor the electoral college vote, but still ended up as president
  • John Quincy Adams - Andrew Jackson had more votes in both categories.
    Presidents who were chosen by the House of Representatives because no one had a majority
  • Thomas Jefferson (1st term)
  • John Quincy Adams
Also, I can kill you with my brain.
2004-09-27, 2:30 PM #21
What is the electoral college?
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2004-09-27, 2:42 PM #22
People who, based upon the percentage of popular vote in whatever given district they're voting for, submit their vote for the presidential election.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-09-27, 2:51 PM #23
Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
I'll save my vote for some enlightened point in the future when the guy who gets the most votes becomes president. It's a really difficult concept to grasp, I know. Our society will be far more advanced then. Seriously, no one needs my "vote" (if that's what they're calling it now) if the guy who gets the most votes is overthrown.


And why the HELL hasn't this issue been resolved yet? How can this happen in a so-called civilized/industrialized nation? Absolutely ridiculous. I'll vote when this country becomes a democracy. Before then, it would be ridiculous to do so.


I really wish you knew what you are talking about. You have no idea how bad a dirict democracy is. We are a republic not a democracy, and you should be very thankfull for that. An indirict voteing system is just one of the many things that we use to keep our republic from becoming a dirict democracy.
2004-09-27, 2:59 PM #24
Quote:
Originally posted by Dormouse
Why do people seem to think that this is the first and only time such a thing has occurred? It isn't common, certainly, but it also isn't without precedent.

http://www.heptune.com/preslist.html
May i direct your attention to this website, specifically:


How in the world did you deduce that?! Of course I know it's happened before! All the better for the point I'm trying to make!

And Obi, I'm not saying everyone should vote for everything. All I'm saying is the presidential election should be a popular vote, to be fair.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2004-09-27, 3:11 PM #25
I really really really really really hate bush.
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
2004-09-27, 3:14 PM #26
Thanks, Ewoklover! I look foreward to more productive and insightful posts from you in the future!

Seriously though, you'll only have yourself to blame if you get blown away by some of the guys around here after saying that.

And Obi, there are other viable options than the American model, you know.
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2004-09-27, 3:15 PM #27
That's nice Ewoklover. This kind of irrational hatred is really starting to piss me off.
2004-09-27, 5:03 PM #28
I thought he was coming out of the closet.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-09-27, 5:25 PM #29
No country can be democratic when only half of it's residents that can vote, do vote.

Kerry will win due to overwhelming young voting turnout.

The Revolution Will Be Televised.
"If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?"
2004-09-27, 5:33 PM #30
I like Kerry. *shrug*
Think while it's still legal.
2004-09-27, 6:25 PM #31
http://www.bushbacklash.com/oldtricks.mov

I'm lovin it.
D E A T H
2004-09-27, 6:44 PM #32
I like how they don't show a clip of Bush responding.
www.dailyvault.com. - As Featured in Guitar Hero II!
2004-09-27, 6:45 PM #33
Yes I would like to see his response too...
2004-09-27, 6:54 PM #34
You can't really respond to that. I'm sure he just apologized and moved on, if he has any tact at all (which while I hate him, I have to admit he is a politician and has to have some ability to smooth things over.)

But either way, I do believe there's only one way to describe that situation...
D E A T H
2004-09-27, 7:01 PM #35
Stupid map? :confused:


:p
2004-09-27, 7:02 PM #36
Ever play CS? :p
D E A T H
2004-09-27, 7:04 PM #37
I was joking... you know... how you said "There is only one way to describe that situation...", then "Stupid Map" doesn't really make sense for the situation... **** sarcasm :(
2004-09-27, 7:07 PM #38
Kyle loses, at understanding the video, at precal, and at sarcasm.

:p
D E A T H
2004-09-27, 8:17 PM #39
You realize that without the electoral college, the candidates would only campaign in, and try to please, the big cities?

The small states would be screwed, and the less populous states would be screwed. Why please someone who can't affect the election? The entire reason we have elections is so government officials are forced to perform the will of the people.

It just isn't fair, we're not a smaller country like England or France, where population size isn't so diverse over area.


I don't care for Bush, but I fail to see why Gore would have been any better. And really, the world won't collapse if Bush gets one more term. He's not evil, he's not a fachist, he's not an imperialist, he's not stealing anyone's oil, at worst he just isn't a good president.

Maybe Gore was robbed, but winning his own state might have helped too.
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2004-09-27, 8:23 PM #40
I live in Utah. No presidential canidate comes here anyway. :p The electoral college is probably the only way that Utah even has somewhat of a say as far as the presidential election goes, not that it has much anyway. It doesn't have that many electoral votes.
Life is beautiful.

↑ Up to the top!