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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Hurrah for political paranoia and college ignorance!
Hurrah for political paranoia and college ignorance!
2004-10-31, 9:07 PM #1
I found this jewel of an e-mail in my Mizzou inbox. Keep in mind that I am 100% white anglo-saxon, and I think they might have missed their mark in sending this to me.

Quote:
Remember back in 2000 when the East St. Louis polling precincts were closed early? And remember how registered voters were denied the right to vote if there was a felon somewhere in the US with the same name? Oh, and remember how Al Gore won the popular vote but the election was instead decided by the Supreme Court? Remember?...

Could this all have been an effort to disenfranchise black voters? I mean I know that over 90% of East St. Louis is black, 80% of all convicted felons are black, and 89% of the Supreme Court is white, but surely there had to be another explanation! After all, it's not like this kind of injustice has ever occurred before, right?

They would have you think that if they could, trust me. It's a little thing called the system, and this system is always at work. In fact it put Bush in office back in 2000, which is why we have a President who puts corporate profits first (and Americans second). There's a problem indeed with a President who cares more about money than his country.

Innocent people are dying in Iraq, and for what... Oil? Defense contracts? It sure as hell isn't Bin Laden. And isn't it interesting when you look at a war timeline of past administrations... Was America at war when Reagan held office? No. Bush? Yes. Clinton? No. Bush? Yes. (I guess Sadam must have started posing a threat to America again in 2000, gathering weapons of mass destruction to use against us.)

What else can we thank the Bush administration for?... let's see, there was the 35% nation-wide rise in college tuition costs since 2001, the budget surplus he squandered, and the fiscal policies that fuel job outsourcing. Does it seem like a tough job market? Well that's because you're not in India or China. And the sad thing is that Corporate America is exploiting these labor markets, paying workers $1.50 an hour, then selling the goods back to Americans for thirty times the cost.

You know what I like about the system?... Nothing. Unless you're rich and powerful it works against you. This system was running full throttle 4 years ago, and now it tries to make you think that your vote doesn't count when the truth is it could decide this election. Vote!... skip class if you have to. Call everyone you know. Make your voice heard!... but this time, Say It Loud so they can hear you.

-i???Fx


BLACK CONSPIRACY!

DUN DUN DUN!
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-10-31, 9:22 PM #2
Shock!
2004-10-31, 9:23 PM #3
TEH BALCK PENTHARS!
2004-10-31, 9:43 PM #4
Stuff like that makes me laugh.
Pissed Off?
2004-10-31, 10:27 PM #5
Odd, despite the fact I am a Kerry supporter, I have read time and again that Bush won the popular vote. Even Democrats agree, Bush won the popular vote in the end after the ballots were all tallied and counted.
I can't think of anything to put here right now.
2004-10-31, 10:35 PM #6
Quote:
Originally posted by THRAWN
Odd, despite the fact I am a Kerry supporter, I have read time and again that Bush won the popular vote. Even Democrats agree, Bush won the popular vote in the end after the ballots were all tallied and counted.


National Popular vote? Bush lost that by roughly 500k votes in 2000... At least that's what the US Elections Atlas site says...
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2004-10-31, 10:46 PM #7
That he did.
Pissed Off?
2004-10-31, 11:24 PM #8
Weird, my Super Anti Republican, Uber Pro Democratic Government teacher said Bush won the vote. This woman was so anti-Republican that when a Republican congressman came to my college to talk, she washed her hands after shaking hands with him.

And this was a lawyer with a PhD who was my teacher.
I can't think of anything to put here right now.
2004-10-31, 11:45 PM #9
Quote:
Originally posted by THRAWN
Weird, my Super Anti Republican, Uber Pro Democratic Government teacher said Bush won the vote. This woman was so anti-Republican that when a Republican congressman came to my college to talk, she washed her hands after shaking hands with him.

And this was a lawyer with a PhD who was my teacher.

But she's still wrong.

Bush lost the popular vote by something along the lines of a half million. Bush won because of the Electoral College.
2004-11-01, 12:06 AM #10
The more I hear about the electoral college, the less I like it. I can't really blame them for going by it in the 2000 election because they were the rules, but the rules here should be changed.
The whole philosophy behind the electoral college system is offensive.
It's not the side effects of cocaine, so then I'm thinking that it must be love
2004-11-01, 8:44 AM #11
I don't like the concept of "checking the masses," but the college does appease the smaller states that could effectively be disenfranchised by a few large cities.

If population was all that mattered, candidates would only have to seek to please the big cities, leaving the mid-west, much of the south, and west screwed. As I've said before, there is still an element of sectionalism in America. What's important to the mid-west might not be important to the east (like something involving agriculture). The east could beat the north in a vote due to population. It's essentially saying that the east represents the mean view of the whole country, simply because of population.

The all-or-nothing thing regarding a state's electoral votes is just stupid as far as I'm concerned, but otherwise there needs to be national legislation on gerrymandering, I think.
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2004-11-01, 9:35 AM #12
kerry... Bush.... we're all screwed :(
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2004-11-01, 9:57 AM #13
Quote:
If population was all that mattered, candidates would only have to seek to please the big cities, leaving the mid-west, much of the south, and west screwed.


Please tell me this. How is that worse than only having to visit Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Iowa under the electorate college?
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2004-11-01, 1:26 PM #14
Quote:
Originally posted by clan ruthervain
kerry... Bush.... we're all screwed :(

Yup. With Bush, were just going off the cliff at 40mph instead of 80mph. Still, I'll take 40 over 80 anyday. :-/
2004-11-01, 1:39 PM #15
Quote:
They would have you think that if they could, trust me. It's a little thing called the system, and this system is always at work.


Heh. The System is out for us!
2004-11-01, 2:04 PM #16
Honestly, I think the electoral college should be forced to reform itself, so that all states adhere to the standard that Maine and Nebraska set. Namely, each of the state's electoral votes gets selected by the citizens of each electoral county.

Doing this with all states would distribute vote much more evenly, and would make it so presidential candidates would no longer be able to win a few key states -- instead, they'd have to campaign to everyone.
"And lo, let us open up into the holy book of Proxy2..." -genk
His pot is blacker than his kettle!
2004-11-01, 2:10 PM #17
Every state would have to vote to change it, and the lesser populated states, like Wisconsin, would never do that.
"I got kicked off the high school debate team for saying 'Yeah? Well, **** you!'
... I thought I had won."
2004-11-01, 2:20 PM #18
wait.. wouldn't Gore have won if it was The System?
Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
Free Jin!
2004-11-01, 2:58 PM #19
Quote:
Originally posted by dry gear the frog
The more I hear about the electoral college, the less I like it. I can't really blame them for going by it in the 2000 election because they were the rules, but the rules here should be changed.
The whole philosophy behind the electoral college system is offensive.


It's offensive to me that you don't understand the advantages inherent to the electoral college, nor the disadvantages of the popular vote, yet you still blast it.

Because of the advantages of the electoral college, I sincerely doubt it will ever be amended out of existance. Also, it's pretty widely predicted that Colorado will vote against their "vote split" proposition. I guess someone went out and educated them as to why it will make their state utterly worthless for campaigning candidates.

Although I should say that the philosophy behind it is indeed somewhat offensive and elitist, but keep in mind that the common people were much more ignorant about the candidates in the 1700's (although I suppose that's debatable). It's easy to understand the founders' distrust of a popular vote. Regardless, the elitist portions of the electoral college were never really used and now are pretty much all but a formality. What remains is a system that very nicely divides up the country and gives some states a fairer share of the vote. You're in favor of socialism, yes? Well, the electoral college redistributes voting power from the people-rich big mean populous states and hands some back to poor downtrodden small states like Rhode Island and Hawaii. No state needs all that voting power, anyway.
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2004-11-01, 2:59 PM #20
oS, would you mind sharing with the rest of us what those advantages are? I'm not saying there arent any, I'm just interested in hearing them.
2004-11-01, 3:00 PM #21
Brad, what are the advantages oh wise one of the North.
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2004-11-01, 3:13 PM #22
A state like Rhode Island is guaranteed 3 votes regardless of how populous it is (# of reps + # of senators). This ensures that the big cities like NYC and LA don't make California and New York the only states worth campaigning for. It also creates "battleground" states, because a plurality of popular votes in a state determines the entirety of it's electoral votes, these states receive attention they might not otherwise get. Conversely, big states are also very important because of the sheer number of electoral votes they get. Little states still get attention because of the guaranteed 3 votes.

The electoral college also handily divides the country into districts we can use if we run into snafus. Can you imagine the implications of a NATIONWIDE recount?
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2004-11-01, 3:18 PM #23
oS knows all!! at the ripe old age of somewhere between 16 and 22.
2004-11-01, 3:33 PM #24
Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Evad
oS knows all!! at the ripe old age of somewhere between 16 and 22.


I don't really understand the basis of this kind of attack. "HA HA HA!! YOU'RE A YOUNGIN`!! HA HA HA!! YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK!! NOT MATURE ENOUGH!!"? The irony, though, I do understand.
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2004-11-01, 3:40 PM #25
Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Evad
oS knows all!! at the ripe old age of somewhere between 16 and 22.


Way to play the Old Age Card, buddy-o.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-11-01, 3:41 PM #26
Quote:
80% of all convicted felons are black,
...if I was black, I wouldn't be pointing that out.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2004-11-01, 3:42 PM #27
I personally think Darth Evad is getting to be a bit senile in his old age. We shouldn't let him post on threads with important topics such as this. ;) :p
2004-11-01, 3:43 PM #28
Quote:
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet
Yup. With Bush, were just going off the cliff at 40mph instead of 80mph. Still, I'll take 40 over 80 anyday. :-/


Dang man, if that was true I'd vote Kerry for sure if I could vote. I always wanted to go out with a bang and 80mph makes a bigger bang!
You...................................
.................................................. ........
.................................................. ....rock!
2004-11-01, 4:01 PM #29
oS know's i'm just gettin' his goat. he don't like me and i don't like the way he comes accross.
it's all in good fun.
i couldn't say anything with any substance in this thread 'cause oS would refute it even if the president himself held a press conference and told the world that i was right. oS would still ask for more links and ask me where i got my canadian skewed information and all kinds of other stuff.
2004-11-01, 7:44 PM #30
In the end politics sucks. It's very devisive, and in real life I almost completely abstain from bringing it up. So the forum is my outlet sometimes... sorry if I come off wrong.
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2004-11-01, 7:51 PM #31
I just wanted to point out that I'm restraining myself from posting a long rant about the electorate college, which is what I'm famous for. Shower me with praise. I'll accept personal checks.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2004-11-01, 8:05 PM #32
Dave, by saying "Getting his Goat" you know you set back Canada's reputation by like 50 years?
2004-11-01, 8:56 PM #33
Quote:
You're in favor of socialism, yes? Well, the electoral college redistributes voting power from the people-rich big mean populous states and hands some back to poor downtrodden small states like Rhode Island and Hawaii. No state needs all that voting power, anyway.

I do not understand. The bigger state still have more voting power with the electoral college system. The masses are also given less of a voice under the all-or-nothing system.
...wait, I saw your next post.
Thank you for informing us. I still maintain that some changes need to be made.
It's not the side effects of cocaine, so then I'm thinking that it must be love
2004-11-01, 9:59 PM #34
dgtf, there is a slight discrepancy among states in that the states with the fewest votes hold more power (proportionally) to the larger states. This is the reason: Wyoming has 3 votes. 2 of these come from the mandatory senate pity votes, and one from the house. Meanwhile, California gets 35ish votes, and only 2 of them are from the senate. Who's getting a better deal from the pity votes? Wyoming, by a long shot.

But other than that, I agree with you. I have no idea what he's talking about. (And make no mistake, what I described above is a pretty small discrepancy)
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2004-11-02, 9:27 AM #35
Okay, I admit it, I have no idea what you're talking about either Freelancer.
I will not debate the electoral college system ever again because this is one thing that's over my head.
It's not the side effects of cocaine, so then I'm thinking that it must be love
2004-11-04, 10:50 PM #36
Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
dgtf, there is a slight discrepancy among states in that the states with the fewest votes hold more power (proportionally) to the larger states. This is the reason: Wyoming has 3 votes. 2 of these come from the mandatory senate pity votes, and one from the house. Meanwhile, California gets 35ish votes, and only 2 of them are from the senate. Who's getting a better deal from the pity votes? Wyoming, by a long shot.


California has 55 Electoral Votes just so you know.

Anyway: Keep the Electoral College as it stands presently. It serves far more purposes than it would appear to on the surface and works rather well. Last blip/problem before 2000 with the system was 1876. Excellent Track Record compared to most other systems.
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Add 106 to my post count for my old name NapoleoneXIV
2004-11-04, 11:15 PM #37
If there are any changes to the system, it will be done at the state level. The future could hold some states that divide the votes proportionally and others that don't.
Pissed Off?

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