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ForumsDiscussion Forum → I guess Bush IS working on some other "internets"
I guess Bush IS working on some other "internets"
2004-11-13, 5:17 PM #1
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/13/technology/13warnet.html?ex=1258088400&en=b593c1ad7018343a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

For those who don't feel like registering so you can read the article, here is the full text:

Quote:

Pentagon Envisioning a Costly Internet for War
By TIM WEINER

Published: November 13, 2004



The Pentagon is building its own Internet, the military's world wide web for the wars of the future.

The goal is to give all American commanders and troops a moving picture of all foreign enemies and threats - "a God's-eye view" of battle.

This "Internet in the sky," Peter Teets, under secretary of the Air Force, told Congress, would allow "marines in a Humvee, in a faraway land, in the middle of a rainstorm, to open up their laptops, request imagery" from a spy satellite, and "get it downloaded within seconds."

The Pentagon calls the secure network the Global Information Grid, or GIG. Conceived six years ago, its first connections were laid six weeks ago. It may take two decades and hundreds of billions of dollars to build the new war net and its components.

Skeptics say the costs are staggering and the technological hurdles huge.

Vint Cerf, one of the fathers of the Internet and a Pentagon consultant on the war net, said he wondered if the military's dream was realistic. "I want to make sure what we realize is vision and not hallucination," Mr. Cerf said.

"This is sort of like Star Wars, where the policy was, 'Let's go out and build this system,' and technology lagged far behind,'' he said. "There's nothing wrong with having ambitious goals. You just need to temper them with physics and reality."

Advocates say networked computers will be the most powerful weapon in the American arsenal. Fusing weapons, secret intelligence and soldiers in a global network - what they call net-centric warfare - will, they say, change the military in the way the Internet has changed business and culture.

"Possibly the single most transforming thing in our force,'' Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said, "will not be a weapons system, but a set of interconnections."

The American military, built to fight nations and armies, now faces stateless enemies without jets, tanks, ships or central headquarters. Sending secret intelligence and stratagems instantly to soldiers in battle would, in theory, make the military a faster, fiercer force against a faceless foe.

Robert J. Stevens, chief executive of the Lockheed Martin Corporation, the nation's biggest military contractor, said he envisioned a "highly secure Internet in which military and intelligence activities are fused," shaping 21st-century warfare in the way that nuclear weapons shaped the cold war.

Every member of the military would have "a picture of the battle space, a God's-eye view," he said. "And that's real power."

Pentagon traditionalists, however, ask if net-centric warfare is nothing more than an expensive fad. They point to the street fighting in Falluja and Baghdad, saying firepower and armor still mean more than fiber optic cables and wireless connections.

But the biggest challenge in building a war net may be the military bureaucracy. For decades, the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines have built their own weapons and traditions. A network, advocates say, would cut through those old ways.

The ideals of this new warfare are driving many of the Pentagon's spending plans for the next 10 to 15 years. Some costs are secret, but billions have already been spent.

Providing the connections to run the war net will cost at least $24 billion over the next five years - more than the cost, in today's dollars, of the Manhattan Project to build the atomic bomb. Beyond that, encrypting data will be a $5 billion project.

Hundreds of thousands of new radios are likely to cost $25 billion. Satellite systems for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and communications will be tens of billions more. The Army's program for a war net alone has a $120 billion price tag.

Over all, Pentagon documents suggest, $200 billion or more may go for the war net's hardware and software in the next decade or so. "The question is one of cost and technology," said John Hamre, a former deputy secretary of defense, now president of the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

"We want to know all things at all times everywhere in the world? Fine," Mr. Hamre said. "Do we know what this staring, all-seeing eye is that we're going to put in space is? Hell, no."
Stuff
2004-11-13, 5:26 PM #2
It's the beginning of the end. Instead of 1984, maybe it'll be 2004.
My JK Level Design | 2005 JK Hub Level Pack (Plexus) | Massassi Levels
2004-11-13, 5:38 PM #3
That's both cool and good. Whether the factions of the military like it or not, having one network is the best idea.. especially one separated from the "real" internet.

I wouldn't say it's like the star wars thing, though. The technology is already here. If the county government I work for can have a map of the county with indicators where the ambulances/police/fire trucks are then I'm certain the government can pull up a map and distinguish between goodies and baddies.

You have to be careful to not knee-jerk against such things. What if this system saves lives? That kneejerk against new improved capabilities becomes a kick in the butt once lives are lost.
2004-11-13, 5:40 PM #4
it sounds like a big network to me...
former entrepreneur
2004-11-13, 5:48 PM #5
Anyone wanna take bets on how long it will take for someone to hack it? :)

2004-11-13, 6:03 PM #6
If it's completely sealed off from the public internet, then the person hacking would have to have a direction connection to the network (either a stolen terminal or an illegal connection) to hack it.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-11-13, 6:35 PM #7
Skynet
2004-11-13, 6:36 PM #8
[I should learn how to read.]
2004-11-13, 6:40 PM #9
I thought this had already existed for 40 years or whatever?
2004-11-13, 10:03 PM #10
Quote:
Originally posted by Connection Problem
I thought this had already existed for 40 years or whatever?

No, you're thinking of the original Internet. Apparently, this would be an entirely wireless WAN, that was in no way connected to any other network. Of course, to hack in, all a hacker would need to know are what frequency bands are used for what, and then they could immediately start at breaking the encryption, then causing whatever damage they wanted. Of course, they can do the same thing with the information networks currently availible to today's troops. This new network seems to be far more "agressive" when it comes to connecting information.

I imagine that it will be quite more integrated into equipment than today's technology, which is more or less, a high-powered GPS system. From what it sounds, this new network will incorporate many different technologies currently in development, such as Intel's "smart dust" technology, and other such things, for colecting data, then incorporated with GPS, and the final results would be widely availible across the network, perhaps also availbile with"annexed reality" goggle technology, so every soldier could call up information on a larger scale at any time if necessary.
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you...
2004-11-13, 10:27 PM #11
Quote:
Originally posted by Mikus
Skynet


Snap. Exactly what I thought.
The Last True Evil - consistent nobody in the Discussion Forum since 1998
2004-11-14, 6:40 AM #12
i just watched T3 last night. i know how to shut it down.
2004-11-14, 8:12 AM #13
Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Evad
i just watched T3 last night. i know how to shut it down.


But then the robots will just send another hot robot back into the past, and it will start all over again.

>.>
<.<
My JK Level Design | 2005 JK Hub Level Pack (Plexus) | Massassi Levels
2004-11-14, 8:15 AM #14
Skynet was an AI, whereas this GIG will merely be a wireless WAN correct? It might open up the opportunity for an AI to gain control of various military hardware, but from what it says it seems like it will be used for communication only.

Eg; it wont be a general activating missiles on a sub out at sea to hit a target behind his position - it will be a general communicating with the subs crew the exact location via computer and guiding them as they fire the weapons.
"Whats that for?" "Thats the machine that goes 'ping'" PING!
Q. How many testers does it take to change a light bulb?
A. We just noticed the room was dark; we don't actually fix the problems.
MCMF forever.
2004-11-14, 8:20 AM #15
Quote:
Originally posted by FullMetal
Skynet was an AI, whereas this GIG will merely be a wireless WAN correct? It might open up the opportunity for an AI to gain control of various military hardware, but from what it says it seems like it will be used for communication only.

Eg; it wont be a general activating missiles on a sub out at sea to hit a target behind his position - it will be a general communicating with the subs crew the exact location via computer and guiding them as they fire the weapons.


...but if the computers took over, they could re-route the communications network, and give false orders. They might tell a nuclear sub in the Atlantic to fire off missiles at Paris, and the soldiers would just be following orders, until it was too late...
My JK Level Design | 2005 JK Hub Level Pack (Plexus) | Massassi Levels
2004-11-14, 8:33 AM #16
And when they found out it was a mistake...they would still be ok?
"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"
2004-11-14, 9:13 AM #17
They are expecting it to be done at around August 27 at 2:14 am
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2004-11-14, 9:24 AM #18
Quote:
Originally posted by Daft_Vader
...but if the computers took over, they could re-route the communications network, and give false orders. They might tell a nuclear sub in the Atlantic to fire off missiles at Paris, and the soldiers would just be following orders, until it was too late...


Thats true, but its still just a communications network. Theres no AI involved.

Given all these worst-case scenarios I very much doubt any AI is going to be given ANY kind of access anytime soon.

Then again... I was going to say "No one is that stupid" but... well, Americans... meh.
"Whats that for?" "Thats the machine that goes 'ping'" PING!
Q. How many testers does it take to change a light bulb?
A. We just noticed the room was dark; we don't actually fix the problems.
MCMF forever.
2004-11-14, 10:07 AM #19
Wireless is pretty easy to tap into. Like my neighbors, who do have incription. I always sneak onto their line without even knowing it myself.

And yeah, I thought Skynet immediatly. It's quite a realistic factor that the military should take into consideration. Such as voice recognition, retinal, etc. A random packet thrown onto this interweb should be ignored, while express packets from the correct Media Access Person Adress are accepted.

JediKirby
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2004-11-14, 10:11 AM #20
0mQ leZz h4x0r t3h presidant!!1peanut
Hazard a company one process.
2004-11-14, 11:14 AM #21
stop it now...
2004-11-14, 11:30 AM #22
how is bush working on it?
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
2004-11-14, 4:41 PM #23
He signed something, which means he is, quite obviously, working on it. :-P
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2004-11-14, 5:02 PM #24
Quote:
Originally posted by jEDIkIRBY
Like my neighbors, who do have incription.


When you make spelling mistakes, they are bad.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-11-14, 5:29 PM #25
I was coincidentally thinking of Skynet too...
2004-11-15, 12:57 PM #26
time to destroy the aquinas router
2004-11-15, 9:53 PM #27
Big Brother? Ther is none such as this of what you SPEAK!
The patriot act lates us OWN YOU!
-- End Comm --
Kenya, Now with lions and tigers.
2004-11-16, 1:12 AM #28
Quote:
Originally posted by The_Mega_ZZTer
Anyone wanna take bets on how long it will take for someone to hack it? :)


exactly...someone hacks it...they can put things int here that don't exist. say that groups of armies are at places they aren't.
I think it's a bad idea.

All someone has to do is program a virus or something and let it go in and you've got your own little war going on, almost like watching some strategy game, warcraft, or command and conquer...only over a military internet.

Instead of humans and orcs...you've got the US Rangers, US military, 153rd squadron, or the navy...vs whatever: Britain, iraqis, al quada, russians, brazilians, chinese, australians...

Then people will make decisions on bad information.

My two cents.
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2004-11-16, 7:46 AM #29
Quote:
Originally posted by Mikus
Skynet


First thought in my mind...

Wonder which machine will kill me...
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DMC87/f49d0793.gif[/IMG]
2004-11-16, 6:48 PM #30
did anynoe else notice there was a guy mentioned in that article named peter teets


*hhahaah*

...yes im trying to be immature.
[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]
2004-11-16, 9:07 PM #31
Haha, you said "teets!"
2004-11-16, 9:09 PM #32
Quote:
Originally posted by Mikus
Skynet


I was hoping I would be the first to say that.
>>untie shoes
2004-11-16, 9:10 PM #33
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill
I was hoping I would be the first to say that.


Me too :o

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