Maybe it will stop piracy, maybe it won't. We're the guinea pigs. Someone has to be.

I already had one mini-rant about Steam this week on TACC. As opposed to having another go, I'll quote the first one:



Yes, I don't like it at all. I'd also much rather buy a game in a box with a CD/DVD than download it from the internet (especially considering my connection).



I honestly don't know why game companies bother. There's always a way around piracy, and some nerd willing to find it. I can't really see how Steam is any more effective than a CD key.

I don't support piracy at all, I buy all my games legally (I tend to use CD cracks though, just for convinience). It would be nice if piracy could be stopped, but it just seems futile to even try.

I think you're a little paranoid, Brian. You've played a few MMORPGs, cant be that averse to giving out your details.

Makes me glad that I dont much care about HL2... it LOOKS cool, but the whole half life story bores me...

Proof of this?

Yeah, I may pirate some games now and then, but I try not to anymore. It's just that I only have so much money, and at the price it takes to buy 4-5 games I could upgrade my system. It seems rather pointless. People forget that even though it costs so much to create a game, it gets pirated because you set the price far too high. 50 bucks. That's ten hours work at minimum wage. Seriously.

Software, I've only ever pirated 2 pieces of software, only ever needed to. Not my fault if I want to watch movies on my computer, I have to get a spyware-laden codec.

Otherwise, the open source and freeware communities rock (RIP Nullsoft :()

But what Brian says is true--what next?

Brian.
Ok so you understand the situation better than any of us with your occupation.
However you are over reacting IMO.
I don't beleive it will be taken the the extremes of spreading as you say it will.
I don't think every game is going to have something like steam on its side.

So apparently two games have a steam-like program. Those being Neverwinter and Half-Life. How many games are currently on the market?

I fail to see how Steam is a sign of the PC Gaming apocalypse.

What's your point Cow? Not many games use a Steam-like thing because it's only been recently implemented, so obviously there aren't going to be many games using it.

The issue is that Steam sets a new precedent. If it works and reduces piracy then you can expect to see more games utilise a similar thing. I, for one dislike the idea of authenticating/activiating any software I have legitimately bought as it introduces too many restrictions and hassles (eg WinXP)

Yes, its only a few things that have this process now, but it wil only increase. Eg. you used to need a little card to enter a code before you could play a game, then came CD-key numbers, then physical copy protection on the CD, now Steam like stuff. I'm all for preventing piracy, but not at the expense of the legitimate end user.

I like Steam. I bought Half-Life 2 without leaving my computer. And immediately, IMMEDIATELY had CS:S, and every single fricking HL game opened to me. So cool.

And Steam automatically keeps my games uptodate so I don't have to, and it has a built in server browser too, so I don't have to launch every game just to see what servers are up for it.

As far as personal information goes, Steam doesn't save your credit card information. It just keeps it long enough to charge you, and then discards it. Even if Valve was hacked, there would be no credit cards to steal.

I do agree that, should Valve go under, playing their games would be a problem, but as already stated SOMEONE, whether a Valve employee or a h4x0r, would make a patch to make HL/HL2 Steam free.

And Brian, I see where you're coming from, but the great thing about capitalism is that the people have a choice. If people like the security measures, they will buy the products. If they don't, they won't, and the company making them will be forced to give in or die. Easy.

Lastly, Valve intended that if the street date was broken then Half-Life 2 would be considered released and opened in Steam. But Vivendi is not allowing Valve to do this, and I am not holding Valve responsible for it. I think if Valve just dumps them ASAP and goes with someone else who will allow Steam things would go much smoother.

I'm glad I bought HL2 online, I don't want to support Vivendi.

I LOVE STEAM!

I recently had to reformat my HD, so I had to reinstall all my old apps/games. Now I've long since lost my HL CD, but all I had to do was download steam, enter my email address and password, and within 5 minutes I had full working copies of HL, CS:S, DoD, CS, Opposing Force, etc. And I never actually owned Opposing Force, so I'll be playing it through for the first time

You make me sick. Selfish brats like yourself that think of yourselves as some sort of ex-patriot when in fact all you're doing is demonstrating your hedonistic, self-centered pursuit of self-pleasure, regardless of the consequences to other people.

Oh yeah right, about piracy... piraters cost companies billions of dollars a year in revenue. Just go google up something, I'm sure you can find some statistics fairly easily. I don't know HOW one can believe piracy doesn't affect the companies.

Depends on what kinda pirating we're talking about.

Personally, I laugh at those who steal all of metallica's albums, or all of Eminem's latest songs. I don't do it, but I do laugh at those who do. Why? Because I hate metallica, I hate eminem, I hate all those preppy sell-out ****s who think that they're entitled to cash for mass reproducing crap. But that's just me.

All the music I listen to anymore isn't pirated...strange.

Just b/c I sympathize with the cause does not mean that I indulge in it personally. So much for having a differnt opinion than the mainstream.

My main gripe is with the music industry (I would love to see the RIAA burn, but that's a different subject) , not with the software/game industry, although i do kind of resent Steam.

The people you should be mad at are the people who sell warez. Those people are the worst kind of leechers, b/c it's bull**** to sell something that you didn't pay for yourself.

Most people in my graphic design class at uni cracked the photoshop tryout b/c they wanted to learn Photoshop yet couldn't afford the ridiculously high prices, even with student discounts. Who is stealing from who?

i have to agree with brian here. i didn't read the whole thread though.
internet authentication for an app that doesn't require the internet just limits the number of sales. :/

They're stealing from the software company. I'm not sure how you can honestly believe that some people can't afford the software makes it all right to use the software without their permission.



...for that 1% of the consumers who don't use the internet.

Do you have a link or anything that says this? I would be kind of hesitant to put credit card info into steam. Valve's track record on Hackers is spotty.



VideoLan player http://www.videolan.org/ is a good alternative to downloading all those nasty codecs. It has played everything i have thrown at it

I hadn't realised that outright thievery had become a "cause". Someone PM me next time please.



They are. From Adobe.

i have to agree with wolfy here (not the blatant insult part but the stealing part).
if a staving man steals some bread is it really stealing? yes.
same with poor students that steal software.
i think there should be some other way of letting students use software for cheaper. like instead of a 30 day trial, a 200 day trial for $30 or something like that. maybe with a phone call registration...

why not? So adobe misses out on a few licenses. Big deal, they're big enough to eat that loss and not even be hurt by it. Once these students graduate, they are more apt to buy photoshop in the future b/c they were able to learn it for free, and even more so if they want to go into legitimate business with it.

Can you honestly say that you care more about a big rich company like adobe than a bunch of cash-strapped students that just want to get the program experience to make a start in the industry?

Adobe still makes a lot of easy money, and the students still get screwed by that deal.

$50 per adobe app would be more like it.

Uh, but not all companies are big enough to eat the losses. And that doesn't make it right.

Well, damn, I'm screwed. My gaming computer isn't going to have internet access, I use an old computer for the internet.

small companies are not apt to charge $700 for their average piece of software, either. (I'm sure there are exceptions, but no one can argue that big old adobe isn't making enough money with prices like that)

Big or small, it's still stealing. Any major university worth its tuition will have some way for a student to gain the experience they need.

I have and use VLan, but I like Winamp's player better. Call me crazy. But when I go for codecs for it--hey, they install bull**** spyware on my computer. FUN!

If a product has a reputation, then it can sell units.

Don't pretend that Adobe is a household brand. Its not a very big company; not small, but not huge.



You beileve that a band which is just starting out, although in the system, still deserves to have their artwork stolen? Not everyone in the industry is Britney Spears and is pretty much guaranteed to sell a few million units. Not all bands are rich simply because they are in the system.

Sure, down with the music industry! whatever man. People who work hard to make music are getting gipped. Don't assume that just because someone is signed to a major record label they're rich. Even Springsteen didn't make a dime from the record label until his 5th album.

I'm not even going to bother reading this thread, I know you'll probably be flamed anyway and I'm probably the only one who agrees.

This is utter BS. The game didn't come with a manual or anything, just 5 CD's that preload the game into steam. So when you buy the game, you don't even have the game. You don't have the game executable. You cannot play the game with just the CD's.

If Valve goes out of business in the next 2 years, you won't be able to reminisce in 5 years and reinstall HL2. It will be gone.

so in other words, if oyu signed with a major label, you would be satisfied with the mere pittance in royalties that they give you? You deserve at least half-- you are the one doing all the work. Why should the damn label keep most of it? What about the artists that sued their labels over this s***?

The RIAA is doomed, and they know it. People are tired of paying $20 for a cd that they only pay a few cents to make. Any label that uses mafia like tactics (like sueing kids and other people in a blatant attempt to intimidate their users ) does not deserve my sympathy. In fact, I feel like spitting in their face.


The RIAA blames the slack in sales on piracy when it is most likely a contribution of other factors.

Indie labels are something altogether differerent. I respect Indie labels b/c they at least try to give the artists a fair share.

I think his point is that downloading songs by RIAA artists "in protest" isn't accomplishing a single thing -- the labels in the RIAA are simply going to drop the artists that aren't making any money.

Easily fixed.

1. Download HL2 and burn it to CD rewritables.

2. Activate your copy to get the .exe

3. rip the iso images from the Cds.

4. Open an iso file in Winiso, winrar, or something similar, and create a new directory and put the .exe in it.

5. Save the changes to the iso, and burn to CD-R discs. erase the Rewritables if oyu want, you don't need them anymore.

6. when you install HL2 in the future, copy the exe from the directory on the cd you put it on, and copy it to the game folder.

(disclaimer) This tutorial assumes that oyu legitimately purchased the game and are not trying to crack a warez copy)

Except that the vast majority of pirating users don't pay $20 for a quality peice of software by a small company. They pirate it anyway, because it's so easy. Especially when small companies can't afford to implement better piracy protection. GetRight's an exception, it's quite difficult to crack as it uses an online CD key database much like games.

I don't have a problem with the people that take stuff simply b/c they need it, and take ONLY what they need.

downloading stuff for cheap thrills is not justifiable, I'll agree.

I need a new car because mine sucks, I'll just go take one from the BMW dealership a block down. With all the rich people buying BMW's, they probably won't notice if one doesn't get paid for.

Stealing a car and borrowing a program are two different things. A car is a tangible item, and you always hurt the owners if you take it. Software is intangible in it's pirated form, so its questionable that you are actually taking anything. You are simply making duplicates of it, not removing the original file from where you got it. Proposed monetary losses on software are also questionable b/c there is no way to prove that the owner would ever have made that money anyway.

I don't claim to be an expert on these sorts of things, but it strikes me as being very unlikely that it would that easy. I'd imagine there would probably be changes to the registry, among other things, which would't be so easy to find. If all you're missing is the hl2.exe then only one person needs to authenticate their copy and then send around the exe.

As for the whole piracy thing. I think it's kind of funny that you're pro-piracy when you have copyright labels on your website. So what you're saying is that it's ok to steal as long as it's not from you.

If you want to use the term "borrow," then I'll just borrow the BMW then for as long as I need it.

Piracy is stealing, and duplicating the file doesn't make it any different.

That would be plagarism, not piracy. I never said that I was pro-plagarism.


As far as the HL exe thing, I'm sure a release group could reverse-engineer the activation process enough to make a keygen that would apply the reg changes along with the exe.