Meh I'm going with lies... when I tell the truth people just get angry at me.

In response to questions raised against my last post,

With the desert example, there is a difference between hope (not knowing what's going to happen, and hoping what does is something you perceive to be good) and outright delusion (you know what's going to happen/is happening, and choose to pretend it isn't/lie to yourself).

You're bitten by a snake, you don't know what your limit is, and you push forward hoping for the best. Delusion here could be just giving up, saying you know you're dead and it's pointless, when in fact you don't know.

I believe in a universal Truth. I don't believe we can perceive it in its entirety, but that doesn't mean that we can't know any truth. Truth exists, a lie does not. It is true that stealing is wrong, for example. A person's possession of an object is an existent fact. To steal denies that a person possesses the object, and instead affirms that you do: a lie, and a 'fact' that does not exist.

We always hope for the best when we don't know, and that is not seen as disordered. To pretend things are as we know they are not is delusion, and what can that bring? It can only hold you back from acting in a productive matter.

I guess my main point would be that, if your actions are based on lies, which do not exist in fact, what will they accomplish except hold you in your present situation, or make you fall farther back?

Even though I voted truth too, I think this isn't realistic for any of us, since we all see the world through a series of filters that distort objective truth. A basic theory in social psychology is that we perceive ourself as being better, more popular, more attractive, ... than we really are. Persons who don't have this defense mechanism, we call realists. Realists who let this knowledge affect them emotionally, we call (hyper)sensitive, and if pathological, clinically depressed.

I absolutely hated part II and III of the matrix series, but in one of those movies someone says I think hope, the quintessential human delusion. Exactly.

The more existentialist reason for me posting this thread is my continuous awareness of death. I have thought about this a lot, and even though most of you voted for 'truth', most of you, most of US believe we will never die. That's probably 90% of the world. There's no judgment in me writing that btw. I think I realize the certainty of death to some extent, at least rationally, but if I really got it, would I still be sane? Would I still take time to write up my thoughts on an internet star wars message board?

It's just that... I think it's unbelievable that so damn many people don't acknowledge death. We have empirical proof of billions of people who have died, yet we think it won't happen to us. 'If we live with qualities x,y,z, ... we will live forever'.

I have lots of reservations on Freudian therapy, but the more I think of it, the more I think his general theory was right. Like literally spot on. His theory proposes mechanisms to subconsciously blur out death. When we're alone with that huge, pitch black hole called death, we turn our eyes away and look left and right, when really we should be looking straight ahead. Death. Yep, it will happen to us. And still with the odds P(Death)=1.0, we think we can beat it. We will live on, in a magical place in ultimate happiness. You can't kill me, I will not die.

But the truth is, we will die, and we will die alone, under the stars of a universe that doesn't give a **** about us.

I think we should all vote 'lies'. Even though I try my best to consciously search for truth.

I apologize for this post being ****ty and confusing, I just write and write and write and write and....

First off, on a side note, the full quote from the second Matrix movie (from the Architect) goes "Hope: it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

Second off, the poll is REALLY biased. It is founded on the idea that truth is synonymous with fact. As a fictional writer, a person of faith, and apprentice of the arts in general, truth need not always be a fact. How many of you have heard the parallel to fact synonymous with CNN and truth synonymous with the Onion? There are a bounty of fictional works out there, with events and people that don't factually exist, and yet is there not truth to be found in them?

I too believe in an absolute truth (as oppose to relative truth), a truth which we can only do our best to deduce into facts. I did not vote not only because it was biased, but because it was geared towards the self-interested. There's talk of none of us wishing to face death. Do we not practice death each time we go to sleep? Do not a part of us die when something of us changes? The cells in our bodies certainly die off after a decade or so. There's implications that belief in an after-life is a lie fueled by hope -- is that not arrogant, to presume we know what will happen to ourselves tomorrow?

I'll admit, I don't plan my days as if I'll die tomorrow. It's not that I don't think I'll die. At the very least, I only think I won't die TOMORROW. But I give myself a little more credit. The thing I fear from death most is not what may or may not happen to me AFTER death, but what I didn't do BEFORE death, for other people. And that's something I do anyway to a lesser degree when I sleep each night. I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way either.

So my vote? "Lies." I won't belief anything that claims that truth is not good. This is not to be confused with what I know to be lies of my own -- that is to say, I know I am capable of lying, so that the truths I am responsible for that are not good appear to be good. Hopefully that made sense.

And if we look straight ahead, we completely miss out on everything life has to offer.

The idea isn't to avoid death, but to take the longest possible path to it, thus giving us plenty of time to enjoy life.

The truth is out there.

*gouges out eyes with a fork*

What is this about?

pft, my six pack beats his hairy six pack o- beer!

I prefer to live in lies and deciet.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Ignorance is bliss.

Beer is better.

(It makes you seem more attractive to the opposite sex)

I believe almost everyone is aware of their mortality. And almost everyone believes that "hope" isn't going to stop us from dieing. But what is with "looking straight" at death? Why shouldn't we just face death right this moment (through suicide)?

That can backfire on you sometimes.

I don't think you're following man. I'm saying we do everything possible to block out death. I can tell by your previous posts that you do too (again, no judgment in that, just an observation)

I think it's a dynamic that has evolved (uh oh). Our reptilian brain guarantees that we do anything possible to secure survival of our genes and to avoid stimuli that put that survival in danger. Then we spawned a mammalian brain and ultimately a rational(?) neocortex. I think that rational brain just continued the systems our reptilian brain already set up: avoid death.

That's why we say that we will never die. It explains exactly the numerous guys I encounter while doing research for my classes. They try to prove humans are more special than 'lower' (wrong term) species, because our being special would allow the thought that Someone ensured an afterlife for us. That Someone promised us that we'll never die. And if our environment reinforces our still young delusions enough, we take them for reality. Our shield of self protection is now complete.

That's why science meets so much resistance; because science continuously tries to take away our delusions. Claims I have come across of people trying to protect the notion that they are special, that they will not die...

• Earth is flat.
• Earth is in the centre of the universe
• DNA does not exist
• Evolution does not exist
• Humans are above animals
• ...

I made none of this up.

These are only a few statements I heard of people who pathologically try to present ancient books as truth; books that DO reinforce the notion that we're special.

IMHO that's also why a mindboggling 80+ % or so of the world thinks they will never die. It's much, much harder to be a scientist, cause we don't allow ourselves irrational defense mechanisms against death.

I don't blame you if you can't follow; I'm writing this up through an endlessly tired fog. If you don't get something, I'll try again. Also, again, there is no judgment whatsoever in this post, as we are all guilty of functional delusion to some extent, hence the title 'lies vs truth'. Last, I realize the sensitive matter in this post, but I have given up on trying to get my point across subtly a long time ago.

But, **** it, I choose truth.

Who says that? We all die. We all know it.

I know what that's like. It's almost impossible (on the internet, anyway) to be direct without someone finding offense. I've come to realize that, and have tried to keep in in mind when arguing in written/typed format, by not being so easily offended myself.

I was talking about afterlife, D.