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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → The only good petition...
123
The only good petition...
2004-11-20, 3:02 PM #1
http://www.petitiononline.com/as123/

Only one I've seen I've bothered signing.

Hopefully it hasn't already been posted...
2004-11-20, 3:13 PM #2
What? It starts off talking about Iraq but then mentions 9/11 as if it were the iraqi's who hijacked the plane. :confused:
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2004-11-20, 3:15 PM #3
I signed.

And it wasn't relating 9/11 to Iraq. It was using 9/11 as an example of some of the underhanded(to put it lightly) tactics terrorists use. Of course, I think the whole concept of "Rules of War" is silly.
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 3:17 PM #4
It's sickening to begin with. He had psychological trauma, and they just sent him back out the next day. That marine needs counceling at the very least.

They're basicly saying "the terrorists do this, so it's ok for us to do it too!"

Not to mention they're giving the other insurgents more cause to fight, and discouraging them from surrendering.

Way to go, america!
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-11-20, 3:19 PM #5
Flexor: What are you talking about? It's common sense that if you see one of your enemies moving and hasn't surrendered, you shoot him before he can shoot you. War doesn't allow the luxury of critical analyzation.

On the subject of surrender: Marines now have no reason to accept any surrenders, seeing as how the enemy have abused the military's amnesty when it comes to a surrendering soldier. I don't see how any marine seeing an enemy soldier waving a white flag can't take it with a big*** grain of salt what with pseudo-surrender being a popular tactic used against them.
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 3:23 PM #6
Signed.
Catloaf, meet mouseloaf.
My music
2004-11-20, 3:25 PM #7
Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran Horn
Flexor: What are you talking about? It's common sense that if you see one of your enemies moving and hasn't surrendered, you shoot him before he can shoot you. War doesn't allow the luxury of critical analyzation.


The guy was lying on the ground faking to be dead, and the marines had their weapons pointed at him. What was he gonna do? phase out of time-space and reappear behind them to shoot lasers out of his eyes?
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-11-20, 3:30 PM #8
Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
The guy was lying on the ground faking to be dead, and the marines had their weapons pointed at him. What was he gonna do? phase out of time-space and reappear behind them to shoot lasers out of his eyes?
Would you rather the Marines sit on their hands, waiting for his next move and increase the risk that they could be hurt, either by him pulling out a gun he had hidden or possibly someone sneaking up on the marines? This isn't chess. I don't know about you, but I value my own soldiers welfare over that of my enemies. When a guy who is supposedly dead starts to move again(especially his hands), that reeks of an ambush.
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 3:32 PM #9
There's this nifty little invention we call handcuffs.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-11-20, 3:33 PM #10
Signed.

Seriously, in a battlefield situation, deliberating for even a few seconds can mean a bullet in the head, and walk up the stairway to heaven (or a ride down the highway to hell). The Marine acted on training and instinct, which is what a soldier in this situation should do.
The man in black fled across the desert, and the Gunslinger followed...
2004-11-20, 3:35 PM #11
My god...please, stop. Your general hatred for anything even remotely connected to the American government or military is leading you to suggest completely asinine and unreasonable things. Not even police officers would try to handcuff a criminal who suddenly "came back from the dead".
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 3:36 PM #12
Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
There's this nifty little invention we call handcuffs.
That would take TIME, something you simply don't have in the middle of a battle.
Catloaf, meet mouseloaf.
My music
2004-11-20, 3:44 PM #13
Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran Horn
My god...please, stop. Your hatred for anything even remotely American is leading you to suggest completely asinine and unreasonable things. Not even police officers would try to handcuff a criminal who suddenly "came back from the dead".


HE. DID. NOT. COME. BACK. FROM. THE. DEAD.

HE. WAS. LYING. ON. THE. FLOOR.

BREATHING.[/i]

Let me repeat that last word a couple of times just to get it in that thick head of yours.

BREATHING.

BREATHING.

BREATHING.[/i]

I'll stop hating america the minute I see the america not causing and fuelling conflicts that cause people to die by the millions, and doing SOME good in the world instead.

That goes both ways for the terrorists.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-11-20, 3:47 PM #14
we can expect to see more of the same. this whole operation has been botched from the beginning imho.
i watched a documentary on the passionate eye last night. it was an independant british journalist in iraq. 90 minutes of the US and brits ****ing it up thinking they're doing some good. this is going to be a very very long war and will cost america hundreds of billions of dollars.
good ****ing luck is all i have to say.
shock and awe and shock and awe. neither is justified. niether.
when's it going to stop?
[http://www.whopissedyouoff.com/images/dave/jennifer_eccleston_miss_shock_and_awe.jpg][http://www.whopissedyouoff.com/images/dave/010912wtc_attack1p.jpg]

i have to admit, i wouldn't even be able to imagine what i would do in the sitiuation that those marines were in.
the only thing i can say about it is that they are not supposed to be there in the first place.
they can thank the terrorist bush for that.
2004-11-20, 4:03 PM #15
Flexor, you're overreacting. What the marine did was justified. Don't you understand that they booby trap dead and mortally wounded insurgents to explode when the marine comes near? Give me a flipping break. You need a return to reality.

It seems to me that better communication could have solved this problem. The forward unit just left these guys behind so other marines could handle them? A little communication could have prevented this, yet, it was still justified. Be reasonable Flex.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2004-11-20, 4:19 PM #16
Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
Flexor, you're overreacting. What the marine did was justified. Don't you understand that they booby trap dead and mortally wounded insurgents to explode when the marine comes near?


So they should be extra-careful, but that doesn't give them an excuse to kill unarmed and wounded fighters.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-11-20, 4:26 PM #17
Flexor
These terrorists do not belong to any government or sanctioned military body.
Thus, as civilains are deemed criminals by UN/world court/US courts/international agreement.
They have never signed any accord/agreement/convention.
They have one goal: Kill Americans.

This isn't a nice game we are playing. The guy had it coming for him. He knew the risks when he took up arms.
2004-11-20, 4:28 PM #18
In vietnam the VC put bombs on young children that would be detonated when the child raised its arms. This would cause the kid to blow up when it reachd up to be held by a US soldier... And the US soldiers got to the point where they simply killed any child that ran their way.

This wasn't even a child. If it wasn't for the fact that the insurgents are known for having bombs on their bodies, and faking deafeat and death, this guy might not have been shot. You can't expect anything less.

But when was the last time that an online petition got anything done? When was the last time the government changed a decision based on public outcry? Does anyone remember when Bush got "elected" in 2000?
>>untie shoes
2004-11-20, 4:33 PM #19
Quote:
Originally posted by Squirrel King
Flexor
These terrorists do not belong to any government or sanctioned military body.
Thus, as civilains are deemed criminals by UN/world court/US courts/international agreement.
They have never signed any accord/agreement/convention.
They have one goal: Kill Americans.


These terrorists aren't representing a country, they're representing a sentiment. What kind of image is that supposed to give out? It's just the kind of action that fuels the sentiment.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-11-20, 4:37 PM #20
Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
The guy was lying on the ground faking to be dead, and the marines had their weapons pointed at him. What was he gonna do? phase out of time-space and reappear behind them to shoot lasers out of his eyes?


There have been a fair number of cases where insurgent fighters have feigned death and either blown themsleves up or pulled guns and started shooting. I beleive the marine in question saw several of his fellow marines injured or killed by a booby trapped insurgent feigning death.

Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
So they should be extra-careful, but that doesn't give them an excuse to kill unarmed and wounded fighters.


They aren't unarmed if they have a bomb strapped to them and a tirgger to set that bomb off when US forces get close.
Pissed Off?
2004-11-20, 4:42 PM #21
Bill, you're right, these online petitions do nothing, but it's the thought that counts.
2004-11-20, 4:42 PM #22
They didn't know he had a bomb. Just because there's been cases where wounded fighters were boobytrapped, doesn't mean they all are. It's like suicide bombers. You can't shoot everyone just because they might have a bomb on them.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-11-20, 4:44 PM #23
Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
HE. DID. NOT. COME. BACK. FROM. THE. DEAD.

Which is why I put it in quotes. It is an expression to show the situation from a Marine's eyes. And being abl to see the rise and fall of the chest isn't exactly the easiest thing to see when you are preoccupied with other things and think the guy is dead until he starts moving.

Quote:
They didn't know he had a bomb. Just because there's been cases where wounded fighters were boobytrapped, doesn't mean they all are. It's like suicide bombers. You can't shoot everyone just because they might have a bomb on them.
So instead we should carefully inspect each and every corpse and wounded soldier? Besides being a colossal waste of time and inefficiency, the bomb would blow up in the inspectors face. Soldier shouldn't have to put their life on the line for PC bull**** anymore than they already have to.

You are just a diehard pacifist.
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 4:45 PM #24
That's much easy to say from the comfort of your computer, thousands of miles away from where it's happening.

Personally, I have no respect for the insurgents that use unconventional tactics like booby trapping their wounded becaue no matter what happens, it screws the US forces. If they used more conventional tactics (like not using suicide bombers and such), then I would be upset by something like this. But since they don't play by the rules, **** them.
Pissed Off?
2004-11-20, 4:48 PM #25
Meh. I don't see anything in war as unconventional or conventional. It's just war and you have to do things that aren't pretty. I understand why the insurgents use corpses and wounded as weapons and I also understand the heightened sense of paranoia among the Marines.
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 5:20 PM #26
In war, it's kill or be killed. And some might take offense to this, but better an Iraqi insurgent dead than an American marine.
2004-11-20, 5:34 PM #27
Uh... multi-post!

I'm not signing it because I can't be arsed, but I guess this is one reason why conflict shouldn't be publicised.
Hey, Blue? I'm loving the things you do. From the very first time, the fight you fight for will always be mine.
2004-11-20, 5:38 PM #28
Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
They didn't know he had a bomb. Just because there's been cases where wounded fighters were boobytrapped, doesn't mean they all are. It's like suicide bombers. You can't shoot everyone just because they might have a bomb on them.


So what would you have done? Left him there? (he could easily kill you if you did that) Inspected the body (it could have blown up if it was booby trapped) or what???

Seriously, if you were in a war you'd be dead in two seconds. "Oh look! An enemy soldier! But I can only see his head and shoulders! He might not have a gun! I better hold my fire and see if he wants to surrender to me! *gets shot in the dome*"
2004-11-20, 5:39 PM #29
Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
So they should be extra-careful, but that doesn't give them an excuse to kill unarmed and wounded fighters.
Being extra-careful requires (again) extra time, which ironically can cost you your life. You can't know when there's booby traps of this nature. Marines aren't gods.
Catloaf, meet mouseloaf.
My music
2004-11-20, 5:52 PM #30
Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran Horn
Meh. I don't see anything in war as unconventional or conventional. It's just war and you have to do things that aren't pretty. I understand why the insurgents use corpses and wounded as weapons and I also understand the heightened sense of paranoia among the Marines.


I know why they are doing it too. It's very effective for them becasue it causes things like this to happen. Gets out to the public and affects public opinion. I jsut don't happen to agree with it.
Pissed Off?
2004-11-20, 5:58 PM #31
Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor
They didn't know he had a bomb. Just because there's been cases where wounded fighters were boobytrapped, doesn't mean they all are. It's like suicide bombers. You can't shoot everyone just because they might have a bomb on them.


So what do you suggest they do? Your very good at criticizing the marine for what he did, but what alternative would you suggest? You can't leave him there, as that will just leave an enemy in your rear wanting to kill you. Search him? Yes, I'm sure you'd be all happy to go over and check him out knowing that he very well could have a high explosive device designed to kill you and everyone near you. So, what exactly do you want the marine to do?
Life is beautiful.
2004-11-20, 7:05 PM #32
Quote:
Originally posted by DogSRoOL
Marines aren't gods.
Even though they like to think that. :)
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 7:16 PM #33
Sorry. If that guy was unarmed, and was severly injured, that marine has no right too shoot him. End of story.
Founder of the Massassi Brute Squad (MBS)
Morituri Nolumus Mori
2004-11-20, 7:24 PM #34
Quote:
Originally posted by SithNazgul
Sorry. If that guy was unarmed, and was severly injured, that marine has no right too shoot him. End of story.
Nothing is so black and white in war. The marine might not of known if the person he thought was dead, but started moving, had a weapon or not. When a presumed corpse suddenly moves, you have to assume the worst. Better safe than sorry.
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-11-20, 7:35 PM #35
Quote:
Originally posted by Squirrel King
The only good petition...

...is a dead petition? :confused:
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-11-20, 8:13 PM #36
Quote:
So what do you suggest they do? Your very good at criticizing the marine for what he did, but what alternative would you suggest?


Don't invade other countries?
2004-11-20, 8:30 PM #37
Woy to not answer the question that was asked. :rolleyes:
Pissed Off?
2004-11-20, 8:38 PM #38
Signed.

Also, posting in support of Kieran.
2004-11-20, 8:49 PM #39
Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Pate
Don't invade other countries?


A tad late for the marine, isn't it?
Life is beautiful.
2004-11-21, 12:07 AM #40
I didn't sign the petition because something should be done to the marine. This incident should be investigated and let those who are qualified to decide whether he was out of line or not.
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