How much would one of you, or how much would some one on ebay, buy a Radeon 9800 pro for? I would normally think it a waste of money upgrading my GPU, as it handles all my games right now, fine, but if I could upgrade with a loss of ~40$ to a 6600 GT, I think it might be a good investment.

EDIT: Upon further research it appears that a 6600 AGP isn't much better than a Radeon 9800 pro. Only around a 1% difference. Stupid 128 bit bus. :p Oh well, I’d still like to know the going price of the Radeon 9800 pro anyway.

180-200.

WTF are you talking about? The 6600 spanks the 9800 Pro. Not to mention SM3.0

Interesting. Too bad my mobo isn't PCI-E. I could have traded up and made 10$ to boot. Ah well. :p That's life.
The PCI-E version shows up to a 100% increase in FPS over the Radeon 9800 pro. The AGP only gets about 10 FPS increase at best on some games. Most get a 1-2 FPS increase. 2-15 FPS is not worth 25 $ to me. How ever SM 3.0 is tempting. I have a game that could full advantage of it, but in that mode FPS is in the ten's on 6800 Ultra's. It would come in handy for screens shots though.

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What game is this? All the games I have I get 40+ fps, sm3.0 version and all. 6800GT here.

Cadetlee--that's a 9800SE, far from the 9800 Pro.

Those are good deals Lee. However, on ebay the 9800 is going anywhere form 130-220. It'd be a risk to put it up there. Upon further reading I'm inclned to agree with Yoshi about the 6600. If I can find a buyer for my 9800 for 185$ or more I'll do it.

EDIT: Whoa, I didn't see that those were SE Lee. Never mind, stay away!

Yoshi, the game I'm talking about, is Pacific Fighters by 1C Maddox. Here are some screens The water is 3D and animated.

Is it straight ATI or something like Sapphire/VisionTek? I could use a small upgrade from my 9600XT, but I prefer to buy only vanilla ATI products, not third-party. Of course I would also need to find a buyer for my 9600XT to pay the majority of it as well.

Sapphire produced all of the 9800 products, iirc. ATi at least stopped making them at some point in time. Sapphire was quite good, too.

VisionTek, Asus, Abit, Sapphire--all good.

Yeah, and add Powercolor to that list aswell, cheaper for the EXACT same card plus a free game.

Only for this card. Otherwise, they're somewhat shady.

Not in my experience anyways, I had a 9200se that could do 75Mhz plus on the core (200Mhz) with passive cooling, and with a small Pentium 3 fan I got it runing 300+ on the core. Memory with out fans, around 175Mhz, up from 165. With fans I'd say 190+. Imagine if I had purchased some real card coolers. I must have gotten damn lucky if what you say is true.

yoshi in that article where did the 'spanking' occur... and the 9800 outperformed the 6600 on the battlefront test...??? and if anyone buys a sapphire or msi 9800pro they are gauranteed the 1.6ns samsung memory and r360 core which is flashable to XT bios and gain even more performance.

My bad..shoulda caught that.

So. Many. Cards!

So. Little. Money.

ATi historically performs better in Battlefield (though 'nam was a bit different). The engine's just optimized for it better.

Also, stay away from MSI. They make almost as bad cards as they do motherboards.

I have a Saphire 9800 pro. I've been thinking I should yank it out and see if it's an RV360.

yeah man do it, and get a vga silenver rev. 4 for it and if its a 350 at least o/c it to XT speeds. Yoshi still the difference on all those tests was a couple fps there was no leaps and bounds as i was looking for in a so called 'spanking.'

As far as msi sucking, i really have not seen any articles or anything besides a couple of guy's on here talking **** about it. msi on newegg has been getting pretty good reviews in mobo's and video cards so I really do not know what to say. And the 9800 pro they sell has a better heatsink then the most and honestly its the exact same card as eveyr other 9800 pro (red with exact same layout).

Read all the reviews

MSI 9800 Pro

MSI l478 i865PE Mobo

I looked at some other reviews where the 6600 GT did better, but the only reason I would do it would be for PS 3.0. It would also have to cost me less than 20$. How ever I might just flash my 9800 pro to an XT for free. If nvidia had put a 256 bit bus on that card of theirs it would have really been worth it, but as it is, I'm not that exited. After looking at all the reviews, I wouldn't really notice the increase with out an FPS monitor.

XT won't help you at all.

Cheaptrick--or should I say snoop, whatever, you really are a noob in the field. MSI has a horrible history of giving out crappy boards, bad capacitors, shoddy manufacturing. They're VERY crappy. People have had a problem with capacitors bursting and starting the board on fire. Reviews aren't everything--think about how many people buy it, and how many people probably posted reviews. The ratio is probably something like 1000:1

Did you quote the right guy Yoshi? What does your response have to do with my post?

I quoted you for the XT part, and addressed cheaptrick for the second part whom I was talking to.

God he gets on my nerves. (cheaptrick)

<3333333333333

well... i mean do you have an article pointing to MSI being as bad as manufacturer as you say it is?? I am no n00b in the field... and the XT uses some DX9 features more effieciently then the Pro, please don't make me find a link... but the difference is enough to at least being warranted.

read about things here yoshi... i get most of the information I argue with against you from this source

here

Oh god. You go there? No wonder. [url]www.hardforums.com[/url]

No, I don't have any articles, because digging one up would be painful. Do you know how hard it is to dig up articles from a certain brand of videocard/mobo, much less anything bad about it? All you get in google is "MY VIDEO CARD IS ACTING FUNNY"

Also, why did you <3 me? I called you annoying. Either you're almost a little more 'special' than I thought, or you misinterpreted me.

Yes, dig up that article on the XT. Because so far as I can tell, all it does is say "9800 XT" instead of "9800 pro", effectively.

there was solace knowing that you find me irritating as we are on the same ends of that spectrum... so heres more <3333

secondly /sigh

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-03.html

the XT outdoes the Pro buy a marginal percentage and the difference not only lies in the XT bios itself but the rv360 core which is underclocked in the newer ''pro's"

I will continue looking for the link that tell's the difference of the 360 over the 350 but you can take my honest word on it...

1) Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER trust tomshardware. They are big fanboys of Intel, and just recently became ATi fanboys. They seem to like whichever company's the underdog, for some reason.

2) Posting any 'evidence' from that site is like posting 'evidence' that something doesn't exist from a geocities site. It just doesn't work.

3) We are not on the same ends of the spectrum. You know how to flash a pro to xt, and think there's a difference. I, on the other hand, know about video cards, mobos, processors, hard drives...hell computer parts in general. Not only that but your grammar sucks. Not being a nazi, but it does.

the same end being, 'hate' is what i was referring to... and here is another link....

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=1890&p=2

and sorry about my grammar...

you could try 'not' being an ******* sometimes??? just a thought???

I am no master in the art of online arguing but seriously, saying I know nothing.... when i simply try to talk about one subject (midrange video cards) is pretty lame. Also I googled the hell out of MSI being ****ty and instances of bad trace, transistors, capacitors, shortages... anything and found nothing besides one post of a person putting the "MSI sucks" (what i googled) rumor to shame saying all companies have their faults and MSI dosn't have any worse record then any other company. I do not have a degree in computer parts knowledge but I know enough. And you act like I am saying ATI IS THE BEST!!!1!! or INTEL4LIFE... no, I do have a good understanding and where you get all your "Mr. AlwaysRight" attitude is by me.... It's not even like I'm arguing I'm just trying to prove a point that maybe just maybe flashing and doing something wayyyy different as an alternative to nvidia who is the top dog at the moment might offset the balance of the universe since I'm just a stupid ATi fanboy... right?

That doesn't pit the 9800 Pro against the XT.

And no, as long as I am right, and you insist that I'm wrong, I'm going to be a *******.

No, you won't, because all reviews get the 'decent' MSI motherboards. They doctor their boards before sending them in, thus get better results on reviews. And most people think it's just random error when it happens. Go to a distributor--CompUSA, Best Buy, somewhere like that, ask how many MSI boards they've had returned. Just ask.

I do state you know nothing, because all I ever hear from you is "buy 9800 lol one flash saves u cash lol" when...it doesn't. It gets you 2fps, maybe, and saves you a total of 0 dollars, because there's no reason to buy the 9800XT when the X800, 6800, 6600, X700, and etc etc are out.

And you're not an ATi fanboy--that's me. You're a 9800 pro>XT fanboy.

Agreed. :p

Seriously, you need to stop telling everyone that they are wrong and that you know so much more than them. Especially Yoshi, when it comes to hardware, he usually knows what he's talking about.

madcow i don't believe i said yoshi was wrong i just asked him how he could use a word like spank to decribe 2 fps... i'll admit the pixel shader 3.0 is superior then the 9800 but it didn't flat out, outdo the 9800 and I will leave it obi to decide if its worth the 30-50 bucks for the 6600

all I ever hear from you is nvidia...:confused:

saying I know nothing is insulting, and honestly compusa..... ...................................................... ................................................................................... they told me to buy a 3dFX card when geforce 2's first came out....


I would be glad to argue on something else as I made my point and you do not seem willing to take it... Look at ORB on 3dMark05 and see the diff... jesus man you get an improvement and it costs you NOTHING so wtf is wrong with that??????? that you don't believe there is an improvement... well there is, I don't think Radeon spent time/money to develop r360 core and say it dosn't do **** over the last one.... maybe they did!

Because flashing is dangerous for noobs to do, and there's a reason they sell R360s for pros--there's a margin of error with that card. Flashing is not a good idea. You act like you get something for free--but you don't. At least not that way. Just stick to overclocking--safe, free, fun for the whole family.

I say nVidia because it's the best brand--I still LIKE ATi better.

CompUSA isn't a credible distributor, but they still sell MSI boards. In fact, iirc, that's all they sell. So they'll be able to give you a more accurate figure.

And it's ATi, not radeon. Not to mention, not all of the R360s they ship are live, that is, able to be flashed safely.

flashing is dangerous, if you go at it like a moron... but at the o/c site i posted earlier there are floppy boot discs that will flash your card buy using a 1-5 menu... as long as you don't pull the plug on your computer while doing it your pretty safe.

compusa point taken, i will go ask them someday if i harness the energy to walk in there and avoid all the old people with there compaq's in their arms complaining about pop-ups and porn emails....

No, it's also dangerous PERIOD. My uncle screwed up a 5900 card because he flashed it, and it screwed up. The chip wasn't one that worked with the flash that he was using (each different manufacturer has to have a BIOS made for it), and even when he restored, it did/doesn' work right. Trust me, he's experienced too--he's about twice my age, and has about 5x my knowledge, so that's an exponential growth over you.

It's dangerous to flash. Stop telling noobs to do it. They can screw up their computer. I'm trying to save people angst and trouble, not to mention maybe even money. End. Of. Story.

k, but never heard of any instance where an ATi wasn't live and flashable just so you know...... sucks for your uncle

when i talk about it, i figure since most people figured how to sign up on a sw gaming forum for a game from 97 they have been using computers that long and most likely have gained the knowledge to do something as simple as 'flashing'

but since it is deemed unecessarily dangerous by heir fuhrer himself then i guess it shouldn't be done

i didn't take into account that we could all be noobs and mess up are video cards

Uh...dude...most of the people here don't even know what flashing means. That's why I'm telling you, you're making an *** out of yourself--you assume people on these boards know more than they do. They have better things to do than sit around and read [H]ard all day. Whereas you have enough time to learn about something, but not research it, I have enough time to learn, research, and move on to the next effin subject.

Most of the people here signed up ~2002 or later (myself included). I think you just owned yourself. And they are the kind of people that would mess up their video cards if you steered them wrong.

In terms of MSI video cards, from my experience they do suck. When the GeForce2 was out back in the day, I bought an MSI version for around $150. I popped it in my Asus motherboard, without any effect. 6 hours and $125 later of long-distance tech support I was told "It doesn't work because we don't want it to." They apparently make their hardware purposely incompatible with their competitors so that if you want to use one MSI product, you have to use ALL MSI products. That's bull****.

i doubt your story sadly... i mean seriously, how could a company afford to do that, narrowing the market that much so you have to go all msi (ram, mobo, hdd, gpu... cpu?)

if you could show any proof of that kind of incompatibility i would willingly read it

Uh dude...it's not unheard of. I don't doubt it. But of course, you're always right, right? LOL 9800 PRO>XT FOREVAR

put an = sign between them and please stop with the flaming i don't instigate by acting childish towards you, i just state my opinion and try to back it as best i can but whatever yoshi go back to your depression thread.

and name one other instance of that kind of incompatibility

omq, my p3 dunt f1t in m3h amd socket wtfx0rs....

Ouch, burned...except obviously you don't realize that 9800 Pro>XT means converting it. Like people say "Start>Run>cmd>ipconfig" to say what to do next. Either way, at least you finally admitted there's no difference between the two cards. At all.