Ok, well, this post on the EC kind of irked me to begin with, considering how it's worded:



After all, the way it's worded, it almost sounds like it's putting down Massassi.

But then when I visited that site, and saw the colors and fonts, then it really annoyed me.

Hey, it's a free...whatever. One should be free to start one's own Web site. But instead of taking someone else's basic design elements and trying to reinvent the wheel, why not try to work with the existing community and improve what we have?

On top of that, if you go to pages like his tools page, he links directly to zip files on Massassi's server, instead of to the pages on Massassi that link to the zip files. That's the usual, hot-linking, bandwidth "stealing." And most of his "resources" links are just links to pages on Massassi.

That is rather poor taste.

Change all the URLs.

Anyway, that site will never succeed, so I don't care. :p

Blasphemy! :p

I'm sure that so many people are going to be submitting that spam WILL become a problem. That poorly copied design screams out "I need a bigger penis!"

Now that you point it out, it does sound like I am putting down Massassi. Sorry about that; that was certainly not my intention. I will change it immediately after this reply.
That is exactly what I am trying to do. I have posted quite a few times about what would be good to change (and why) and about the Hub (just search using my user name). Unfortunately, things are a bit slow or broken around Massassi, and so I actually did something instead of waiting around for someone else to do it.

I emailed Brian over a week ago about what he thought of the site, partly to ask about the very issues raised by blujay, and partly to ask if the idea of the Hub (or the Hub itself) could be made a part of Massassi.

I apologize for the badly worded EC post and the impression of copying Massassi,


[Edit: Moved a parens.]

I don't understand the new idea or advantage of the "hub." It just seems like a radial as opposed to linear menu. Do you mind explaining?

Aw, that's okay. *hug*

I remember Zeq posting some ideas about improving Massassi that sounded really good a while back. He was/is trying to contribute to the existing community, but he got the cold shoulder, so he's taking action, which is commendable.

Though I do disagree with the bandwidth stealing thing. You should just link to Massassi's pages, not files.

Drat!

When I had looked up what bandwidth stealing was before, I thought it meant something a little different. I just checked again because of the comments in this thread, and yes, connecting directly to files is considered bandwidth stealing. Either way, I did email Brain about this, but still no reply. (Actually, those assuming bandwidth stealing had to assume that I had not received permission.)

Not all of the links to Massassi are directly to files, but I will remove or redo the ones which are. Eventually, the site will hold its own files (if given permission from the file owners).


Okay, you say. Zeq could possibly be a decent fellow after all, but why the Hub?
Briefly:
- As a JK editor, I wanted to have an uncluttered and consistent interface to the many JK editing materials. The Hub focuses strictly on JK and MotS editing. There are no forums, there are no guides on how to play the games, there are no fancy graphics, and there are no materials for other games to confuse things.
- The Hub provides a consistent interface to the various materials. Massassi has an Editor's Corner in one format, a Showcase forum in another, and the various editing materials in still another.
- The Hub keeps materials in the same place, so they can be found easily. What do I mean by this? Look at the EC and the Showcase forum. The posts are continually "moved down" as new threads are created. These do not present ongoing projects in a way that would be most useful to editors. If I want to find out what is going on with a project, I just go to its project page on the Hub. It is always there (at least until it is finished).
- It seems as if those who have admin privileges are just too busy to update the Massassi site with current JK material. Having already tried to help and having suggested ideas, I waited before making the Hub more than a prototype.

The initial design was copied from Massassi, but that's because it originally was a prototype of an idea that was presented in a Massassi Discussion thread a while ago. I am transforming the Hub almost everyday (though not always visibly--there are databases and scripts to work on).

Much of the Hub's content is obviously lacking, but what is there should be enough to see if it is worth using, or if it really is just a clone of Massassi. I hope others will see that the Hub is more than just a "hub" menu tacked onto Massassi's site, but I will just have to keep at it and see if anyone notices.

I say Brian sets it up so all hotlinks lead to a picture of a certian goat nature or something to do with a tub.

One question: Why?

There seems little to no point to this. Everything on this site is readily available here on massassi.

Even though you claim it's not a massassi clone... it is.. there is nothing on there that isn't on massassi. It's just links to massassi's pages which actually makes things take longer to navigate because of the extra click.

Take away the things which are available on massassi and what is left? a bit of info about JK projects? A couple of links to project sites?

I always thought the idea was a working version of Zeq's idea in the aforementioned thread on improving Massassi. I didn't think it was designed to actually exist separate from Massassi?

/methinks that for what the site offers, it would be much too hard to keep updated.

You are trying to organize a database of over (*checks file count in massassi file server backup*) 9,200 files. 9,200!!!

Now I'm not saying it is a bad idea, but it is going to be very hard to ever get something like that sorted out.

I remember Brian mentioning here a while back about organizing projects and authors with their levels... I think it fell through simply because of the huge number of mods and levels we have on file.

Um, right.

If you make pages for every mod and level IMDB-style, that would be awesome.

I don't have time to write a full reply right now, so I'll just say a couple of things:

First, I'm glad that you e-mailed Brian, but a week isn't very long for this. Brian works hard at his real jobs and doesn't have a lot of time to spend on this. Also, what e-mail address did you send your message to? Maybe you sent it to one that he doesn't use anymore. PM me and I will give you his current address.

Secondly, although I'm not the right person to accept your apology, since I'm not on the staff officially anymore, I appreciate it. Your efforts and actual work--as opposed to just lip service--is commendable. But I hate to see you go to all that trouble for a site whose address starts with "http://home.earthlink.net/~zeqmacaw/..." There must be a way that you and Massassi could work together.

I might reply again later with some additional points. But I'm sure you won't be on the edge of your seat.

I thought that the JK editing hub was a good idea.

The only major things that have changed on massassi since 1999 are the addition of Seriously editing, and DSettahr as newsposter.

I'm sure someone can find better ways of organising things for the editors here than 3 forums, a file database and an EC all in different parts of the site.

I actually like the original design (which was much closer to Massassi's than the one currently) - the nav was easier and it worked on all browsers (now the orb thing doesn't show up correctly on some pages in Opera).

As for the editing hub itself, I liked the idea (a lot) and was planning to ask him to become part of Massassi and do the work he was doing on a sub-site or something here.

He's got icons indicated every instance where there is an external link to Massassi Temple.

He mentions and links to Massassi Temple all over the place.

He is clearly trying to add some organization that will help him (and likely others that have problems with our current organization, navigation, or coverage).

I really don't see any harm in it - quite the contrary - it's rare to see someone have a problem with the way we do something and actually DO SOMETHING about it - and not only that, there was no malicious intent in anything that was done here.

Just my opinion.

People who still edit JK and MOTS are almost as bad as those people that still edit original Doom.

JK and MotS are fun no matter what their age is.

Just look at chess; it is much older and it is still played. :p

nm

did not read the whole thread. sorry.

You do realize you say this on a site that was devoted to the editing of these games, right?

You want bad? I'm BAD
You want destruction? I am DESTRUCTION
You want the beginning? I am the BEGINNING
You want a pepperoni pizza minus onions and olives? ... er...

But them original doom mods ROCK. I mean REALLY REALLY ROCK.

Have you tried any of these things? Holy cow. I know one that adds 50+ some odd weapons. One mod replaces the chainsaw with a forklift. That has to count for something.

How you do all those pages in static HTML astounds me :p





L3cY had a similar (very effective, php-driven) thing for HL2C before we all quit .. I think it got removed by the new staff, but it was really nice, maybe you could ask him for the source or something.