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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Is it art?
Is it art?
2004-04-17, 2:33 PM #1
Is it even real?

1

2 (click the link in the first post)

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"Music is the universal language and the
dialect we speak in is Hip Hop!" - King Solomon

[This message has been edited by Molgrew (edited April 17, 2004).]
2004-04-17, 2:37 PM #2
Pfft, it's like killing animals for game: it's stupid, and inhumane. It's ok to hunt to eat, but to kill for the sake of killing is just stupid.

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BV's rendition of Titanic: Let's have sex. I won't let go. I don't need this stone.
The End.
~ Wolfy
That painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me.
2004-04-17, 2:39 PM #3
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BV:
Pfft, it's like killing animals for game: it's stupid, and inhumane. It's ok to hunt to eat, but to kill for the sake of killing is just stupid.

</font>




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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²
"I consume the life essence itself!... Preferably medium rare" - Mauldis

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2004-04-17, 2:40 PM #4
Maybe she wanted to express just that?

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"Music is the universal language and the
dialect we speak in is Hip Hop!" - King Solomon
2004-04-17, 2:41 PM #5
She's one of Sweden's best artists right now, IMO.

And sure it's art, we're living in a post-modern art world. EVERYTHING is allowed.

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"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
2004-04-17, 2:44 PM #6
I don't have any problem with killing animals, really... for example, hunting. I'm not interested in it, myself, but if somebody else finds it enjoyable, I don't have a problem with it... but this is just plain gross. :x

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Do you have stairs in your house?
Do you have stairs in your house?
2004-04-17, 2:53 PM #7
http://www.wetterlinggallery.com/archive/nathalia/nathalia_main.htm
The last 2 in her gallery are especially intersting.
</sarcasm>
<Anovis> mmmm I wanna lick your wet, Mentis.
__________
2004-04-17, 2:56 PM #8
I find that gallery... disturbing, at best. and riply and Star? *shudder*

------------------
"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²
"I consume the life essence itself!... Preferably medium rare" - Mauldis

-----@%
2004-04-17, 2:58 PM #9
the star one is disgusting. if you click on it to see the larger image, there's like blood dripping out of the mice :x

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Do you have stairs in your house?
Do you have stairs in your house?
2004-04-17, 3:07 PM #10
The word 'wrong' doesnt even begin to describe this.

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-04-17, 3:10 PM #11
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Molgrew:
Maybe she wanted to express just that?

</font>


Wait... so you're saying she may kill animals to express that she didn't like people killing animals? i don't quite folllow...

------------------
"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²
"I consume the life essence itself!... Preferably medium rare" - Mauldis

-----@%
2004-04-17, 3:39 PM #12
I have to admit, I dig the hatching mice and the mice finger puppets. I dunno, I can't really justify the killing of animals for art, but I can't argue with the end result either - And that's coming from someone who flat-out despises most modern and post-modern art.
2004-04-17, 4:09 PM #13
I'm really not much of a cat person and mice are vermin. Last summer I killed about twenty of them. Some of which without the use of a mouse trap. Heheh, and some with a rake... that was really fun, though.

So.... it's okay with me.

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"The Oracle told me I would die with my boots on. I've worn tennis shoes ever since." - Axis
2004-04-17, 4:33 PM #14
I am morally outraged.

And also rather physically sick.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2004-04-17, 5:08 PM #15
Well, such similar "disgusting" action takes place in meat slaughter house or butchershop. Is it because the artist uses the corpses as tools instead of pieces of meat, some people are disgusted? I guess its better to see a slab of animal part on a plate instead of a person "toying" with the bodies...

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)

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-----------------------------@%
2004-04-17, 5:24 PM #16
[edit] Never mind

[This message has been edited by Run (edited April 17, 2004).]
2004-04-17, 10:44 PM #17
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Echoman:
Well, such similar "disgusting" action takes place in meat slaughter house or butchershop. Is it because the artist uses the corpses as tools instead of pieces of meat, some people are disgusted? I guess its better to see a slab of animal part on a plate instead of a person "toying" with the bodies...

</font>



I don't think it's the fact that these things take place, it's more the reason they take place. I have no problem killing for food or protection (I mean larger animals here. You obviously aren't going to kill a cat to protect yourself from being scratched). If she ate the mice or the cats, then used what was left for art, it would be less morally objectionable, though equally disgusting.

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Our very existence is at stake
Marsz, marsz, Dąbrowski,
Z ziemi włoskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Złączym się z narodem.
2004-04-17, 11:06 PM #18
I'd say it's okay when they allow human to be shot for art... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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My levels

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pazarol a világ, én meg segitek neki
My levels
2004-04-17, 11:08 PM #19
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Compos Mentis:
http://www.wetterlinggallery.com/archive/nathalia/nathalia_main.htm
The last 2 in her gallery are especially intersting.</font>


That is vile. It's the equivalent of me killing a random, innocent person out on the street because I wanted to take a picture of their corpse stuffed in a jar. This woman deserves to die. And I'd be very pleased if it was by forcefully stuffing her into a jar. Then launching it into space. This should no way be acceptable, and anyone that is okay with it should seriously rethink themselves.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Spork:
I am morally outraged.

And also rather physically sick.</font>


Agreed.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ric_Olie:

I don't think it's the fact that these things take place, it's more the reason they take place. I have no problem killing for food or protection (I mean larger animals here. You obviously aren't going to kill a cat to protect yourself from being scratched). If she ate the mice or the cats, then used what was left for art, it would be less morally objectionable, though equally disgusting.</font>


I wouldn't see it as being less morally objectionable - she'd still be showing the same lack of respect for a dead creature.

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«»The Scratchware Manifesto
-¬thoughts from beyond observance
2004-04-17, 11:14 PM #20
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jin:
I wouldn't see it as being less morally objectionable - she'd still be showing the same lack of respect for a dead creature.

</font>


Well, if she ate them then she had a reason for killing them. I agree that it shows a major lack or respect for dead creatures, but they weren't killed for the sake of being killed.

Also, I didn't mention this earlier, but it wouldn't be all that difficult to replicate the results she got using materials that are not animals. And more impressive in my opinion, because if she could replicate the results realistically without actually killing the animals, it would take more artistic skill.

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Our very existence is at stake
Marsz, marsz, Dąbrowski,
Z ziemi włoskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Złączym się z narodem.
2004-04-17, 11:19 PM #21
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ric_Olie:
Well, if she ate them then she had a reason for killing them. I agree that it shows a major lack or respect for dead creatures, but they weren't killed for the sake of being killed.

Also, I didn't mention this earlier, but it wouldn't be all that difficult to replicate the results she got using materials that are not animals. And more impressive in my opinion, because if she could replicate the results realistically without actually killing the animals, it would take more artistic skill.</font>


If she ate them then she'd be justified in the initial killing of them. But she would still have no justification in taking any photos. Especially the way she has. It's grotesque.

However, I do agree that if they aren't real animals, and just replicated with other materials to look real, then I would have to commend her on her artistic talents. But I'd still be disgusted by it.

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«»The Scratchware Manifesto
-¬thoughts from beyond observance
2004-04-17, 11:31 PM #22
Jin, you've expressed my thoughts almost to the letter. I fully agree.

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Our very existence is at stake
Marsz, marsz, Dąbrowski,
Z ziemi włoskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Złączym się z narodem.
2004-04-18, 3:53 AM #23
They are real animals. And she manages to take the photos before that light of life in their eyes disappear. She's very skilled.

But this is really all that post-modernism is about: Shock value. You see, to get your art published or exhibited today, you HAVE TO BREAK BOUNDARIES. And we already have snuff movies, people. Remember that.

Remember Guineapig.

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"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
2004-04-18, 3:59 AM #24
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mano:
And we already have snuff movies, people. Remember that.

Remember Guineapig.

</font>


The Guinea Pig films aren't snuff.

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If you can read this, you need better glasses.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2004-04-18, 4:10 AM #25
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NAS_Matyy:
I'd say it's okay when they allow human to be shot for art... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

</font>


Road to Perdition [http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif]

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Do you have stairs in your house?
Do you have stairs in your house?
2004-04-18, 4:12 AM #26
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Krokodile:
The Guinea Pig films aren't snuff.

</font>


According to American laws, they are.

But yeah, they are gore/horror.

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"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
2004-04-18, 4:36 AM #27
ewww, not as nice as the Awwwwwwwwwwwwww thread [http://forums.massassi.net/html/frown.gif]

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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GBK:
2) You statement is lacking any clear structure or grammer. Please add these things.</font>


Sweet irony...
/fluffle
2004-04-18, 4:44 AM #28
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mano:
According to American laws, they are.
</font>


Please explain.

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If you can read this, you need better glasses.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2004-04-18, 4:52 AM #29
Okay, so I was wrong.

Christopher Berthoud, 26 at the time, was prosecuted for importing a SNUFF video into the country [Great Britain. -S]. The tape Southward Crown Court heard was of an Asian woman being tied down and dismembered by a man dressed in a samurai outfit. "It falls into the category of a snuff video," said the prosecution, later adding "This is not an Asian girl alive being murdered, but something that is so well simulated that that is the impression it creates." A controlled delivery was instigated by British customs and Mr. Berthould was arrested post haste upon delivery of the Guinea Pig film. Police searched his home and found audio and video films dealing with serial killers and documentaries on serial killers and an assortment of horror films. Mr. Berthould duly accepted his punishment saying that he didn't want the jury to watch the film for fear traumatizing them. Experts were called in to examine the video and after several viewings decided that it was simulated and not real. Despite this, the court still found Mr. Berthould guilty of the offense but, instead of imprisonment, they gave him a £600 fine. The headlines of one newspaper read: "DEATH CRAZE MAN'S SNUFF MOVIE SHAME."

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"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow
2004-04-18, 5:10 AM #30
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Spork:
I am morally outraged.

And also rather physically sick.

</font>




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Try not, do; or do not.
Math is infinitely finite, while the universe is finitely infinite. PI = QED
2004-04-18, 7:45 AM #31
...that's seriously f***ed up, right there.

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Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

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