for a few years i helped make weapons. air to air missiles, cruise missiles, surface to air missiles, periscopes for a number of military vehicles on the front lines...
i thought about it many times.
'what am i doing?'
'what are these weapons being used for?'

we got a letter at work on day. it was a letter of praise from the british air force stating that the latest genreration of sidewinder missile was used successfully in combat. a big thanks to everyone who worked on the project.
you're welcome... i think. we just shot some poor ******* out of the sky. :/

so off to work i went everyday thinking that the work i was doing was for the greater good (that was when clinton was the boss) and that these weapons would be used with discretion and morals. knowing that i was helping to kill people on a near daily basis was something i put in the back of my mind. i would justify it by knowing that if i didn't do it, someone else surely would. it would happen whether i was there or not.

this is the kind of thing that weighs heavy on the mind. especially given my stance on such things.

but then i met someone with no morals at all. no conscience what-so-ever. i met this person while they were working and i couldn't believe that this person could live with themselves doing what they do.
we paid $13 for 2 medium drinks and a large popcorn at the theatre.
who on earth could actually stand there and ask for that much money for popcorn?
those people need to take a good hard look at themselves and what they're doing.

Hahaha, awesome.

I'm with you all the way.

I'd charge 20 bucks for popcorn if I knew some idiots would buy it anyways!

that's why I buy food and drinks at the supermarket before I go to the cinema

Considering the person serving you has no control over the prices, and the person who does is so far removed from customer service that they don't give a crap about individual customers, it's kind of a moot point.

About the weapons thing though. It's something I've thought about alot. In my line of studying, the possibility of ending up doing some kind of weapons design engineering was always there, and as far as I know, it pays pretty darn well. But I'm quite certain I could never do it. You say that if you didn't do it then someone else would, but it's skilled work, it's not like serving popcorn, and there isn't an endless supply of people with the knowledge and training to do it.
No matter who was in charge of using the weapons, which evil tyrants we were after when we attacked whichever country, I still couldn't be responsible for the design of something that would eventually kill someone. Yeah, they're soldiers (hopefully) but as far as I'm concerned they're people first. We all need to just sit around a nice big table (big enough for 6 billion people) and talk out our problems.

*waits for the attacks*

sorry if that really wasn't what you wanted to hear, Evad!

I have no qualms with killing people, especially not soldiers. They sign up to die--the moment they enter boot camp, their lives are forfeit. Other countries, it may be different, but they're still our enemies, and chances are they're not going to listen to diplomacy if they haven't already.

In fact, diplomacy is only a 50/50 thing. It only works about half the time, and when it does, nobody knows about it, but when it doesn't, everyone's like "OMG WHY COULDN'T WE JUST TALK IT OUT!?!?!??!" We tried, idiot, it didn't work.

/rant

Diplomacy NEVER works on popcorn.

An unfortunate truth.

I sneak in a flask of tequilla every time i go to the cinema with my friends.

I'm confused. Have you seriously worked on (or still do) weapons or did you just say that for the joke's sake?

I found it amusing anyway.

Well this one time at jedi camp, I took my lightsaber and I was like I am not a weapon. Then I like sliced off someone else's foot and uhhh....I'm in hiding now.

i have worked on optical systems for heat seeking, laser guided, optically tracked and cruise missiles. also abrahams m1 tank periscopes and thermal weapons sights (<-- .pdf).
now i make optics for reconaissance and surveilance cameras for military, law enforcement and civilian use.
the cameras on the global hawk, predator and others are the ones we make. they take most (if not all) of the aerial photos from the middle east right now.
[url]www.wescam.com[/url] is where i work now. i used to work at [url]www.elcan.com[/url]

Thanks for your work, Evad. Most people in the military never think about the work civilians put into the equipment we use and need.

wow. ok, firstly, I think it was perfectly obvious I was being facetious with the table remark, and secondly, doesn't calling me an idiot kinda break the rules?

and Wookie, no matter what my feelings on the subject, that was a really nice thing to say. the same thought occurred to me; people rarely consider the work that has gone into the things they use on a daily basis, including that which is really needed.

you are very welcome. although it's you guys that don't get the thanks.

you know, it's funny how we take so much for granted.
our computers for example. has anyone ever seen a processor made from design to manufacture? holy schniekies!!! it is extremely complex. it's a process that has a 33% yeild in production and it's done in the cleanest environment on earth. the automation is worth 10's if not 100's of millions in each lab. the automation is absolutely necessary to keep it as clean as possible.
they actually build (that's not in quotes because they actually do build) structures on the scale of billionths of a metre. what's the next gen architecture size? 90 billionths of a metre i think. **** that's small!! and they're made in a vacuum that is higher than that around the space station (1x10^-7mm Hg of pressure (760mm Hg being atmosphere))(in other words there is more air around the space station than in the chambers they make chips in).
the crystaline structures are defect free. impossible a generation ago.
i could go on. :p
and we take it all for granted.
"why is this thing so frickin' slow?!?!?"
ha!!

Thank you Evad, for reminding me to watch "Real Genius" again. Such a good 80's movie. And thank you for being Rad in 1983. I was never that good on a BMX.

We need to have carbon-based microchips. Silicon sucks.

As for the conscience thing, I've designed weapons before (well, I made some "improvised explosive devices" in my basement), not for the purpose of killing people though. Me, I just like to watch the explosions and say "ooooh.... pretty".

I've always wanted to build a nuke. Sadly, the components are not readily available.

ha!!! that was my second fav bmx. an original dyno designed and owned by rob morales before gt bought them.
my second fav was my robinson. designed my the old man himself, gary turner (rip) after he bought them out.
over the years i bought 7 different high end bmx's. about $10,000 worth.

Thanks, and I wanted to make sure you got my apology in the other thread (re: brittish reporting of tsunami). It was a sarcastic comment but I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was personally directing any of that to you



We get plenty of thanks. And regardless of all the politics involved, I hope you realize that the reality of what we (read: the US military) are doing on the ground over there is mostly humanitarian.

Yoshi isn't calling you an idiot. He's referring to people in his example, he just didn't word it very well.

I was just making a remark, sorry if you got the idea that any of it was pointed at you specifically. I'm just sick of the whole "Why do you have to fight?!" mentality.

*buys Evad a beer* Wow...that was good. That last part was so unexpected I was rolling with laughter.

I'm all about inflation.

Now I need to go blow up.... erm... pick up my date.



[/randomness]

The turn your post took just about snapped my damn neck, Evad. I never saw that coming. I too hate buying anything at a movie theater, you get ripped even thinking about it.

Don't movie theaters make much of their revenues from the snack stand? (more than ticket sales?)

I knew a guy who quit his weapons-design job for moral reasons. He worked on nuclear submarine projects and the like, building and testing miniature designs.

[edit] and they charge that much because they know you'll pay it. Same reason they'll charge you $5 for a coke at Six Flags. They have the monopoly and you didn't bring your own.

This is correct.

Plus you can't generally bring your own. Unless you smuggle it in.

But I like filling my pants with popcorn.

I assumed he wasn't aiming it directly at me, but he was saying that people who expressed the view that I had just expressed were idiots. Seems pretty simple to me.

Thanks Wookie, I did see the apology, though to be honest I didn't really get what you were saying in the first place. It seemed as though you were saying that the reporters should be more concerned with the inconvenienced travellers than the thousands dead, which, considering I'm reasonably certain you're not insane, didn't seem right! Then Yoshi went all crazy and I just decided to step back.

I must say, I'm loving this "I totally disagree with your views but lets be civil and courteous about it" thing we have going on!

No, I called all the people who can't accept that sometimes, DIPLOMACY DOESN'T WORK idiots. Now, if you group yourself among these, I guess I can see where you're coming from.

Yes, and this is why it's often easier to sneak into a movie than to smuggle food into a movie you actually paid for. They gain relatively little from the ticket sale.

Hmm this kinds of remind me of the scientists saying something like "I wanted to use science to help mankind, but it seems like we are always being used to create destruction".

Thinking buying snacks at a movie theatre is bad? Try being the guy that sells them. Awful, awful job. In fact, the conditions there were against the law. Remember, "The Jungle ?" It's like that again today, but now people care even less.