Heya! Right, well I'm saving up for a digital camera, which hopefully will be worth it. Anyway, there is a theory, and my brother has proved this theory, that you can "catch a ghost" in a picture. If you snap a picture off, and when you view it, sometimes you can see a little white "orb". The "orb" is the excess energy left behind from the spirit or something. A few streets over there is a spooky old mansion with a graveyard and stuff. It's now a small public resevouir.

But, I was curious if any of you have ever tried this before?

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Titan A.E.

"The least they could do is kill my food before I eat it." - Cale

Although my name represents one of my favorite songs, in a way it also explains my actual person, a Cosmic Castaway!

Is he sure it's not just a lens flare?

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

Positive. Do some google research, should bring up some things. It's not just a ball of light, but an outline. Sometimes, even faces can be seen.

Call me crazy, but I love this stuff.

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Titan A.E.

"The least they could do is kill my food before I eat it." - Cale

Although my name represents one of my favorite songs, in a way it also explains my actual person, a Cosmic Castaway!

I have done it before - by photographing a cloud of dust. There's really no rational reason to believe there's anything supernatural about it.

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MadQuack has a signature.

Clean your lens.

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You're entering a world of pain.
http://darkestspiral.greentinted.com

these 2 photos were taken in the room i'm in right now






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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

I've seen various shows that (appear to) remain objective on the subject, and I'll admit a lot of it is apparently unexplainable with what we know. There's just too much to throw out on account of people being crazy or hallucinating, not stuff like when people see or experience the same thing, completely different people that haven't ever seen each other. I don't know how entirely true those stories are, but still. I also see no reason why there couldn't be rational scientific explinations, be they actual ghosts or not, to everything we've seen and heard of.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Maybe, but you simply can't trust a picture or video these days. Take the post above you as an example.

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

Photoshop is awesome, isn't it? Just kidding. I've not seen any verifiable reason to believe in it, other then the fact that i've never quite seen if fully disproved for every case, but i believe in other stuff for that reason, so i'll give this the benifit of the doubt.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
Scions of Light[/i]

my photos are not edited in any way

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

That's why i said 'just kidding', Jim

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
Scions of Light[/i]

Not everything is known about the physics of the universe. That's all I have to say about 'ghosts'.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

You're crazy.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

I've heard about how some people see strange things, like human-shaped black silloutttes out of the corners of their eyes, but when they turn and see, there's nothing there.

I would normally attribute that to a) too many drinks or b) being full of bull****, but I've seen one too one time when I was alone and I was completely sober at the time. I felt like someone was watching me too, very uncomfortable feeling.

Creepy, eh?



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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

Light has electro-magnetic properties and have a very large frequency range. Digital Cameras create B fields that you cannont see. EMF [Electro-Magnetic Flux(s)] are also common (as in many devices that have a B field and a current (which gives rise to a Force and thus a Flux)). What does all of this mean? Well, considering the camera takes the light it recieves and converts it to data (in the form of Binary (that is to say, a series of either a pulse or no-pulse sent in as a current), it's not totally unlikely that, due to the EMF, that the data can get distorted. When considering that some of these 'Overlays' have detail and taking into account that after the light enters the camera some of it will bounce around in it for a while, it's not unlikely that the 'overlays' are from a previous moment in time (where time, as represented by the varible t does not exceed the time it would take for all of the light from that moment to be totally absorbed by the interior of the camera).

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Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited April 19, 2004).]

i think the real problem is getting those damn ghosts to hold still while you take their picture...

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

The orb effect mostly only works with flash digital cameras. Paranormal "invesigators" tend to throw a lot of terms around without any actual understanding of the subject.

Rest assured, orbs have everything to do with light being reflected back to a poorly balanced CCD rather than ghosty ghosts.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...

Oh here we go again.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...

..how? How is it possible for anyone to prove that they've taken a photo of a ghost? Since when was there ever conclusive evidence that even proved the existence of ghosts? Don't get me wrong, I'd fancy myself to be a bit of a ghostbuster, but you've really got to consider both sides. There's plenty of natural phenomina that occurs all the time which can ofter mis-lead people on what they've seen/heard. When science can't explain it, then leave it open for discussion on its supernatural origins. Just taking a photo of "something" isn't grounds to proclaim its ghostly origins - you're going to have to do a lot more investigating than that.


And a standard film camera would be a lot more reliable for trying to photograph ghosts. There's too higher probability of interference, as Friend14 stated in his post.

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«»The Scratchware Manifesto
-¬thoughts from beyond observance

No, trust me, Friend14 posted no such evidence of interference. He posted a bunch of innane science fiction babble about three subjects which quite clearly had little to nothing to do with each other.

Orbs only became popular when digital cameras became common stock. The "orbs" are caused by digital cameras having a longer depth of field than standard film cameras. This effect isn't totally limited to digital cameras since the orb effect can be recreated on a disposable camera with a flash too close to the lens. If you want to understand how pictures are taken, you should first look into what makes cameras work.

Film's reaction to light is chemical. Silver crystals react when radiated with light, causing them to burn an image into the gelatin holding the crystals which is then later fixed to the plastic sheets the gelatin is applied to. Henceforth, negatives.

A CCD does not react to light like film does, however. A CCD will accept a incoming photon and transfer the photon as an electron back to a capacitor that amplifies it and tests it for voltage. This means that images captured by CCDs are scanned in row by row vertically and then stored into memory where it is processed, compressed then placed on disk. This is why most digital cameras have such slow shutter speeds.

The entire ramble about B Fields and Electromagnetism is both grossly poorly written, incorrect and serves no purpose. Even in the field of electromagnetic physics. I'm not entirely sure how "light bouncing around the inside of the camera" creates a electromagnetic field capable of producing flux. I do know that the chamber that houses the CCDs are coated with a diffuse black paint so as to absorb all stray light that enters.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...


[This message has been edited by Farix (edited April 20, 2004).]

Well I'm not very knowledgeable in the field of photography. Thanks for clearing it up, though.

Anyways, I still think it'd be better to use a disposable camera. You always hear stories about flashlights going out, cell phones not working, etc, when "investigators" and the like are out getting some happy snaps with a pesky poltergeist. There'd be less room for skeptics to pick holes in your photo's if you were using analog equipment, rather than digital stuff. If that makes any sense.

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«»The Scratchware Manifesto
-¬thoughts from beyond observance

One thing you'll never see "investigators" use will be SLR cameras. Not only is the lens too far away from the flash to create any desired artifacts, but an SLR would require them to take a picture and see exactly what the camera sees.

Paranormal investigators are notorious for being fanatical. This is why study of ghosts and poltergeists are considered so trivial. The phenomenon is documented and stories of hauntings occur even in places where skepticism is high that such a thing could happen. The problem with the field of paranormal study is that it's proponents are raving lunatics who refuse to listen to logic and conduct "experiments" without applying the scientific method. Thier findings are inconclusive and even when they might have something, thier information is largely ignored because the information was so loosely gathered that it's hard to make heads or tails out of.

Ask them why they don't use film and they'll tell you digital captures invisible energies. Ask them to prove it and they'll give you a ton of garbage that ammounts to nothing. Confront thier views and they'll mark you a heretic and mark you as the reason no one considers them credible.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...


[This message has been edited by Farix (edited April 20, 2004).]

Not all paranormal investigators are complete nut jobs. Granted, a large portion of "believers" show the same lack of vision as most conspiracy theorists and "UFOlogists", but there are some who do take to the study with caution. A degree of skeptism is required for conducting any accurate study of a "sighting", but unfortunately most are all too eager to claim to have had an encounter. It's a shame that such a genuinely interesting thing as paranormal phenomina has become such a joke.

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«»The Scratchware Manifesto
-¬thoughts from beyond observance

Oh Friend14, STFU

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

One of my textures in the JK level I'm working on, if you look really closely at it, you can see a chicken. It's actually there thanks to the wonders of that photoshop drag-drop thing though... My bloody mate can't take pictures of walls and bricks for me, oh no, he's got to take pictures of chickens. Make a mess of my nice level.

WTH? Take a physics class. B Fields, Light, and EMF are ALL related to Electro-Magnatism. Perhaps you should read up on the subject a little before you simply tell someone they are wrong.



The light bouncing around doesn't "create a electromagnetic field capable of producing flux." The flux occurs naturally. Part of the light bounces around for a period t. Not all of it is absorbed by the paint at one time (in other words, the paint isn't a micro black hole that magically absorbs all light immidiately, if that were so, you wouldn't be able to see the texture of the black paint) which explains why there isn't a complete overlay of an entire image from that moment in time.

Try:
Here
Here
And Here

And if that's still not enough for you I can provide much much more.

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Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited April 20, 2004).]

WANG!

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

I didn't say Electromagnetism (With correct spelling and no hyphenation) and B Fields aren't related. I'm saying that they have little to nothing to do with the garbage you are insinuating.



Yes, you have once again proven that physics exists and that you have gleaned what basic concepts you needed to form some science fiction parody about what actually occurs. Since you haven't even STATED the formula where you got variable t, I'm only left to assume that not only are making this up as you go, you're also tossing about terms and definitions that have no bearing on the subject at hand in order to seem more informed than you actually are. Considering thats twice now you've left the formula unstated and without reference I will tell you it's only a bit late to be posting it now.

Let's put your argument into perspective now, since I've got to take a shower.

The B Field is one of two electromagnetic fields in basic physics. The other is E which is the electric field. The B Field exists as charges in motion. Compass magnets are a good example of how the B field operates (toward earth North).

Again, how B fields relate to photons are still totally unexplained. I think Friend14 should just concentrate on the Einstein thread, where he calls Fox out on something that wasn't up for debate. At least you haven't made you case for BS physics there... yet.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...

Didn't someone (I forget who) post a picture they'd taken with a ghost image of a cat on it? I think I remember something about a firework mode or something that delays or sets the flash off earlier, but that might be poor memory talking. The picture was definately posted though =/

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"This hole is octogo. Ogiganeel. It's Octa.. It's got eight sides."
"We interrupt this program again, A. to annoy you, and B. to provide work for one of our announcers."

It does. I'll explain below.



There is no formula to speak of. t would be calculated based on the need for several varibles. Primarily the exact color of the black paint which would give us a rate that we could use to calculate how much light would be absorbed. Then we'd need to know the Area of the inside of the camera, primarily the cylindrical protion. We'd need that to extrapulate the time between where the light hits the inner walls (coated with the 'diffuse' black paint). Of course, we'd also need to know the initial angle in which the light struck the inner walls and where it struck. Then we'd have to plug-in the velocity of light in atmosphere (Though, for all intent and purposes, due to the small size of the Area in which we're dealing with, 3x10^8 m/s would be close enough). So, as you can see, a formula wouldn't do much good with that many unknowns. However, it wouln't take long for it to be totally absorbed. My guess would be somewhere in the 2-3 second range.



And a B Field flux is a change in that field. It's not always present, only when there is a change in concentration of th eB Field. Which leads to my correlation. If we took your explaination as all that was involved, we'd see this occurrence in every picture. But we don't. Even under consistant conditions this appears to occur randomly. My theory, is that it occurs when a picture is taken during one of these fluxes in the B Field.

BTW, B Fields are virtually everywhere. Oh yeah, and I hope you weren't referring to the Earth's geometric North...because that's not accurate.



Read above.



Cross threading, but none the less, I was calling Firefox on a typical error he makes on a regular basis. Besides, apparently you failed to notice where the Twin Paradox had already been brought up....just as you missed how I never said that the light caused the flux in the B Field.


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Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited April 20, 2004).]

I'm just curious... Friend14, have you taken any Modern Physics courses yet?

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And everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon...
DSettahr's Homepage | Cantina Cloud | Rally NY

This page demonstrates how dust is visible in photos taken with digital cameras.
http://www.castleofspirits.com/orphphoto.html
Also notice how the dust looks exactly the same as orbs do.

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MadQuack has a signature.

Hello. Yes I understand completely.

I'm stopping right about here and will refuse to acknowledge anything you have to say about the subject short of calling it nonsense.

You see you fail to understand that light leaves the lens just as easily as it enters. The overall light that enters the camera is the same at all times except for when flash in enabled. In fact, if your theory were plausable, the effect wouldn't be 100% reproduceable with certain film cameras and people would see such "orbs" with the naked eye every time a flash goes off.

At least test your formulas before you go on and on about your findings on an internet forum.

Oh wait, thats right. You have no formulas. Whoops. Sorry, I forgot.

In any case I would really like to see if our starting poster has had any experience capturing his ghosts on camera. The paranormal (it's been agreed on SA) is intriguing even amoung those who don't believe it exists. I suppose the concept of life after death is tantilizing, even if it's hard to accept.



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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...

Egon, your mucas.

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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album comes out April 20th

Yes.



You have failed to understand anything that I have said and you obviously have no understanding of Electro-Magnetism (yes, I use a hyphen for certain words that typically don't use them. It's my writing prefference). Further more you obviously don't know that EVERYTHING despite the color, reflects at least some light. Which would include the 'diffuse black' paint used in the camera.

BTW, the effect shouldn't be visible with any film cameras. In fact, I clearly stated early on that this was with Digital Cameras. And no, they wouldn't "see such 'orbs' with the naked eye every time a flash goes off." Why? Because these 'delayed' images only still exist within the confines of the camera for a brief time. So, now your jumping to false conclusions based on what I posted which confirms that you have no understanding of the subject.

So now, your using ad hominem attacks in a last ditch to try and keep your self-imposed ego standing. Good work.

I'm intrested to know if DrkJedi82 made those motions in front of the camera or someone else made those motions in front of the camera shortly before the pictures were taking or not. I'm also intrested in knowing if he took any shots before, after, or in between those that he posted.

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Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited April 20, 2004).]

Yes, but my brother used one of those throw-away cameras. If they still capture dust, I don't know. I've been saving up for a digital camera not just for this, I just want a cool camera.

But, most of the pictures he has taken are near cemetaries, or scary enough, our own basement. Not everything is an orb, one picture there is even a faint outline of what looks like a short person?

I dunno, I just like ghost stories and such, and found this interesting. I still got awhile to save up for it anyway.

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Titan A.E.

"The least they could do is kill my food before I eat it." - Cale

Although my name represents one of my favorite songs, in a way it also explains my actual person, a Cosmic Castaway!

You have to be careful. The effect is especially noticeable on throw away jobs because the flash is placed almost on top of the lens housing. If anything you should try video. I've found minidv cameras at pawn shops starting at 299. Considering the entry level price for non CMOS cameras, 299 isn't that much more to spend for full motion video.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...

Wow. There is so much physics flying around in here it's insane. i'm mad that i haven't gotten to light equations yet in physics. just electron-photon interactions in chemistry. But, anyway, i just wanted to say something:



You are so amazingly right it's incredible.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
Scions of Light[/i]

I wish I'd heard this yesterday, because I kept feeling something standing over me. It freaked me out.
That's nothing. I catch demons with my mighty "Butt-Crack of Doom"!!!

A capacitor does all that? No. A capacitor would block the current, and charge itself. Perhaps you meant transistor?
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"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."
- Proverbs 27:17
Ignorance breeds ignorance, anger breeds anger, violence breeds violence, so love breeds love. Choose the fruit of your life wisely.

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited April 20, 2004).]

Yes I totally meant capacitor.

(And no, I didn't mean capacitor. The transistor is one of the steps following the first pass to the cap. I'm not sure why I said that about capacitors. Chalk one up for 4am posting.)



Is poor grammar and mispelling a writing preference as well? I can't keep up with the nonsense american schools teach our kids these days.



Thats nice dude. Effect is still totally reproducible on film. You are still wrong and have nothing that exists in physics to back up your science fiction stories.

Also, hows that big band theory holding up?

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...