so my boys have expressed an interest in making video games. i figure i should introduce them to modding.
what tools do i need and where do i get them?
i have psp7 for textures.

thanks.

as i've heard the GTK Radient is much better then the JO/JA version of Radient

Edit something that's.. editable. JK, Q3, HL, things to that nature. JO/JA just isn't your run of the mill 'replace this model with this model' game.

JediKirby

it's the most editor friendly, kirby. dont kid yourself.

especaially for young boys. it's practically just like legos, but you get you create the lego pieces' shapes yourself. and it uses actual positive space which sector editing lacks, and can be confusing.

and i find it funny that you listed Q3 when JO and JA are edited the EXACT same way, in almost every way, at least geometrically speaking.

gtkradiant is the best tool for editing Q3 engine maps: ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/qeradiant/GtkRadiant/GtkRadiant-1_4/Windows/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-raven.exe

it even does HL and some of the old quake games.

thanks guys.
i assume all the tutorials i need will be here?

You need to decide the specific game first, and if it's mapping or some other kind of modding. Only after that it's time to look for tutorials.

And if it's JO/JA, all the tutorials are dispersed around the web, but fortunately the places stay the same, so links can be posted.

i figure and assume that making textures for models/characters are the easiest with the quickest results for your work. to re-texture kyle, for example, with new clothes.
JA is the game we'll be working with.

Basic list:
http://www.gamingforums.com/showthread.php?t=135196
(scroll down to my posts)

Complete list:
http://www.chillidonut.com/levelsource/forum/viewtopic.php?t=818

I agree with Kirby. You should start them out with JK or at least Half-Life first, before moving up to the Quake3 Engine.

JK and Half-Life are the way to go.

When they want something more complex and they can make decent levels, move them onto Q3.

Then convert them to Doom 3!

*insert diabolical laughter here*

He said modding. JA is NOT for modding. At all. You're thinking levels. On that note, yes, JA is far better for levels. To find a happy medium, edit Q3: Modding is easy and stressless, and level editing is, as you said, like legos.

HL2, if from what I've seen of the editor and some of the mods already released, is going to be the best of all of these to mod. But really, start with JK/HL for mods.

JediKirby

how is it not for modding at all, kirby? your logic bewilders me. i'd think a very flexible engine that's C++ based (if i remember, the sith engine is similar) which has a mp source code released... hrmmm. it all depends on knowledge. if you know more c++ than cog, then Q3/JO/JA is easier, and vice versa. you can do a hell of a lot without c++, though, and enough to even make a whole very nice (if not completely revolutionary) mod, simply by editing text files and adding images/models.

But the editing scene for JA is weak. The ability to acquire knowledge is utterly hindered by the lack of a signifigent editing community. There are 3 major JA mods which I can think of, and all of it's members are self taught. While a Q3 engine game, much less has been looked into on the engine.

JK/HL, however, has a very rich editing community full of people willing to show you around when in the dark. Like I've said time and time again: This is for new editors. Don't think you can edit JA in no time. Edit it once you've got the basics, and have done a few simple things in one of these engines.

JediKirby

There IS a significant editing community for JA, it's bigger than JK's. You don't need level tutorials because it's exactly like Quake 3. If you want to know any details specific to JA then you search LucasForums, it'll be there. Or read many of the JA tutorials that are out there, however people like you seem to refuse that they exist.

Modding wise, JA is far more capable than JK. I cannot put into words how much more powerful C is than COG. "much less has been looked into onto the engine." Well it's the same goddamn engine, so that's kind of hard. And if you know C, you don't need a bunch of tutorials guiding you through how to mod an engine which is already well documented. JA modding isn't meant to pick it up and read tutorials and just mod it. Yes, it is harder, no one is disputing that, but it's far more capable.

Really kirby, you don't know anything about programming so I find it hard to believe you can know something about how difficult JA is to mod or what the coding resources are out there for it.

The bottom line, the reason JO/JA has little documentation is because you don't need it. Just look at Q3 or SoF2 documentation, it's all there and there's plenty of it. Of course you can't just pick up JA and mod it. You can't pick up HL and mod it either, you still need to know how to program.

JA is a good game to start with, but then I'd try and get them to move onto Quake 4 when that comes out - it'll be great for modding... I hope.

It's Doom 3, which is incredibly for modding. Raven would have to pull a big Bush administration to mess that up.

Emon, my point wasnt about whether or not JA is more powerful or if the "modding scene" has been more prolific, but rather that JA is a much more complex game to mod for than JK or Half-Life. I think that someone who is just starting out would find it beneficial to begin with an older, less complex engine and work their way up to more difficult stuff.

Jk can be a lot harder in different departments, DS. it's really all based on how you think it would be normal for certain things to work, especially positive and negative space when it comes to mapping. and im sure cog is, like any other langauge, just as challenging to learn as C if youve never tried it before.

well, my kids think JK has crap graphics. those spoiled little jerks (ha!). they like JO/JA more for the graphics, force powers, and the original released levels.
also we have both of those games (thanks brian). i'm going to stick with these 2 games because we're all familiar with them and at least they'll be exposed to editing/modding on a game they're familiar with.

thanks for your suggestions.

and as far as negative and positive space is concerned, i know my youngest boy will have trouble with the concept. and he's more of the video game guy.

Please note one thing: Video Gaming can be very addictive and can influence the communication with other humans. Please watch your kids if they are maybe to long behind a computer...I Know it, really, i have experienced it myself. Anyway's, if youre children want help. Just add me on there MSN list...send me a PM about it.

I really hope the above is a joke...

I also really hope your children grow out of their liking of crap games stage. After playing through both games from start to finish, one can easily say that JK is the more enjoyable. JO/JA may LOOK better, but gameplay wise, it's JK. And I'm assuming this WITHOUT the nastalgic factor.

JediKirby

I dont even think JO/JA look better. It's all blocky and dull.

gameplay can be entirely based on how well the map you're playing on is geared toward it. there have been maps made for the use of specific weapons in Jk and JO/JA, and in either game there have been some that worked very well.

gameplay has nothing to do with what game you decide to edit, because by modding it, that already means that you intend to change it. if you loved every bit of it and thought it was perfect, you wouldnt modifify it.

no one can say one game is more enjoyable than another. some kid may hate Jk but spend hours playing that ET game for the atari because it makes him happy. enjoyability is in the eye of the beholder.

[edit]and goit... no, just no.[/edit]

Now now Kirby, this isn't a "Jo/JA suX0rz b@d!!1!!!111" thread, so I'm sure everyone doesn't wanna hear why you think JK is so much better than JO/JA. Because we've already heard your reasons about a million times.

I agree.

And DS yes, that may be true, I already said I agree it's easier, I'm just shooting down Kirby's trash about JO and JA not being editable.

*resistance*

*more concrete facts disproving kirby's resitance*

har i win

Uh, it was resistance against debating it...

But if we're playing this game:

*References to the fact that Cazor drinks tide and makes love to cardboard droids*

[See Signature]

JediKirby

I don't see how JK is more fun than JA. In JK you have two or three saber swings, which are pretty buggy. In JA you can do all sorts of neat, cool moves.

*brings up the fact that the reference kirby made has nothing to do with my knowledge of video game editing*

*Point noted. Retort with inuendo and bannable comments*

[See Signature]

*giggles because kirby is banned, in a completely metaphorical way, and if these things in the ** really mattered*

BY THE WAY JA ROX MY SOX OFF LAWL

A crappy corridoor looks better in JK than it does in JO/JA. Admit it! Dont let me dig out screenshots!

You cant place "enjoyment" on saber swings. The plot was better, the atmosphere was better.. JK had a tremendous star wars feel. And Sariss is now a porn star.. did JO have that?!

fanboi.

I agree with Goit except about the hallways. The hallways is only true because the rest of JK looks like crap. However the rest of JO/JA doesn't look as bad so the point is moot.

except even if both corridors are the same level of detail, the lighting in JO/JA is ages beyond Jk. especially in JA.. i mean yeah JO has sof2map and it was alright, but q3map2 for JA just rocks its ****ing socks off, and the textures are 32 bit, compared to Jk's 16(which some people are amazed by in Jk levels, which kinda makes me giggle inside)

Not to mention JA's texture filtering is infinitely superior to JK's mip mapping. You've got trillinear and if I'm not mistaken, anisotropic filtering at your command with JA. JK just has 4 crappy mipmaps.