None that I can think of - can you list these three?

I would guess ABC, NBC and CBS are the biggest three.

I don’t want to be another i-don’t-care-ican.

Oh God...

The government Controls UPN?

WHY DID WE VOTE FOR BUSH!? WHAT KIND OF MAN IS HE!?!?

(/sarcasm)

Nope, hence me not listing them/stating it as fact. Just something that I had in my head for some reason. Guess I was mistaken.

I also find that extremely..... very extremely hard to believe. If for no other reason than that their rebellious/independent tendencies make them likely to look down on big brother tactics, high schoolers do not favor that kind of stuff. It just makes for a sensational story...

Gotta agree with Freelancer's..... opinion :). not language.

Keep in mind that a lot of the kids in that study most likely have a brother/sister, father/mother, cousin, or some other relative currently serving in the military.

In my fiancé’s family, her brother is currently serving in Iraq (In fact, he just went back and you can also see his Unit featured in the latest Jib-Jab animation). While neither side of his family supports the war, the do support his decision. And because of the families support (and attention) for him can be seen by the younger kids in the family, many of them are saying they want to join the military (when they're old enough). The thing is, Jay will be the first to tell you that they are constantly trying to brainwash them. Constantly telling them how Bush in a righteous and noble man. How we finally have a President who has the balls to do something about the "terrorist" problem. Ect. Ect. Ect. Even still, we can see this beginning to wear on Jay as he originally was not going to re-enlist after this last tour of Iraq...but now that he's back over there (After spending 3 weeks in Kuwait(SP?)) he's reconsidering.

I also know that in a log of conservative families (like mine) they are always talking about how the media has too much freedom. How they shouldn't report things (true or not) about Bush that could paint Bush (and his administration) in a negative light. I am therefore also certain that a number of the kids in that study (and in America in general) also live in that kind of household and hear those things. At that age, that's just as good as brain-washing. After all, it's common knowledge that kids often take on the views of their parents (at least until they get older). I know I certainly did. Some kids, however, never abandon their views as (what is referred to in Public Speaking as a listener type) they but themselves inside a box of information and don't accept anything outside the box that conflicts with what they believe (which can even evidently viewed here at massassi). This is the sad truth of the society we live in...

Side Note:
BTW, Dj, how does this make things more Socialist? Socialism and Capitalism are forms of economies. Not forms of Governments. If anything, this is "survey" is showing that we're moving towards a more conservative society, which tends to be of a Capitalist economy. Which, I have no problem with America having a "TRULY" Capitalist economy, but only if it doesn't interfere with the Constitution (and other unalienable rights not mention but protected by the constitution). Ultimately, a Communist type economy in which no currency is used would be ideal as it would force crime rates to be reduced to almost nothing while encouraging intellectual growth and raising accepted social standards to be more civilized. The Russians believed that you must go through Socialism to get to Communism. This obviously failed as they never truly became communist. There were still huge social gaps. I believe, the only way to turn any existing economy to Communism is to go through Capitalism first, which would close the huge social gaps and encourage all to work harder and change the motivation from working to survive to working for the common good of society.

So this is the path this country is choosing? Rights? Who needs those? Free speech? Naw.

Can these kids be that stupid that they don't understand what they're doing?

These kids much be pretty selfish and narrow minded if they can't grasp the concept that limiting 'unpopular' opinions flies right in the face of free speech. If you're going to limit anything, we might as well just throw the whole system out the window. But then again, I doubt they thought anyone would come knocking on their door and confinscate their snoop dog CDs.

I think at the fundamental level, these kids have no idea where these rights came from. Why our fore fathers that they were important. Then again, they weren't around to see the Scar on Andrew Jackson's face that he received from a British soldier at the age of 14 when, shortly after being captured, refused to clean the soldier's boots (Andrew refused by requesting to be treated as a prisoner of war). They have absolutely no idea of what it's like to fight for your own freedom from tyranny.

However, they may yet get their chance...

I wish the school system would instill in the hearts and minds of students a genuine distaste for government. Unfortunately, socialist teachers instill the exact opposite: an appreciation and affinity for government. Government is necessary but inherently evil. Never should we allow the government to control us in anything more than rudimentary ways (no murder, theft, etc).

QFT. Governemnt is not something that we should love, but rather something that we should watch constantly.

Canadians taking affirmitive action? Isn't that some kind of oxymoron?

The problem with that is that it is a political view. Schools shouldn't favor specific political views.

Who, the military brainwashing? Unlikely. Probably what he is confusing as brainwashing are people actually voicing there opinions. Most but certainly not all servicemen tend to have values in line with a more Republican/Conservative philosophy. This lends to many one sided conversations probably much like those that might occur on a colege campus. I know many people who weren't sure they would vote for Bush or actually voted for Kerry. And he's probably reconsidering re-enlisting because it's a huge decision that takes many factors into account rather than being "brainwashed".

As for this survey I'm wondering what the root cause of it is. Is it the perceived bias of the "mainstream media" or the alleged danger of the "rightwing media" that they fear?

Yeah, Wookie is absolutely 100% correct. You say "they" are trying to brainwash Jay. Who's "they"? Besides, is it really that surprising that military personell tend to vote for the candidates who support what they're doing?

Friend14, what you don't realize is that socialism is an economy type, yes, but since when haven't economics and politics blended?

I guess I took for granted that it could be assumed that when limited to the only people that could "tell them" something and they have to listen (such as while in formation). Anyhow, I was reffering to his Superiors as to who "they" are.

Wookie06, all we heard about while he was home this last time (especially during the Christmas holidays around the family) is how he didn't want to go back to Iraq and how he wasn't going to re-enlist. Now suddenly after a couple weeks in Kuwait he not only wants to re-enlist but make the Army his career choice till retirement? It doesn't make sense. Especially if you knew the guy. He's 20, has a wife and 1-year old. He's got a wealthy uncle that will easily give him a job the minute he leaves the Army making 5 times what he's making now + Benefits, retirement plan, ect. It also should be noted that the ONLY reason Jay went into the Army is because in got into some trouble when he was 17 and the Judge told him to either enlist in the Army or go to Jail. The kids bright. He was an E-3 when he left boot camp and was an E-4 when he finished his school. Re-enlisting simply makes no sense what-so-ever for this kid.

Dj Yoshi, my point was that you were associating Conservative values/beliefs with a Socialist economy. When typically, Conservative values/beliefs are associated with a Capitalist economy. More Liberal values/beliefs are associated with Socialism. For instance: Republicans are always trying to get people off government support. This is a Capitalist issue. Democrats are always trying to get people on government support. This is a Socialist issue.

My political views are as follows:
For Domestic Issues: I side with Republicans
For Foreign Issues: I side with Democrats

Bottom line of my belief is that there should be more concentration on what's going on our own soil. Cleaning up our own problems (and weirdo's, psycho’s, terrorists (ie. KKK, Gangs, ect). What right do we have in trying to help others clean up their country when we can't even clean our own country up? It's like a high school drop-out trying to teach a college class. It just doesn't make rational sense to me, though feel free to call me crazy. Also, we should be encouraging people to take care of themselves. There's not a shortage of jobs in this country (I don't care what any statistics say, if hundreds of Mexicans can come to the US and not have a problem getting a job, a natural born US citizen shouldn't have any trouble at all), so there's no excuses for someone not to have one...except for the fact that they can get paid to sit at home thanks to some government agency that's creating an ever-so-larger hole in our countries national deficit.

I was miserable when I went to Iraq. I swore I wouldn't put my family through another deployment. Contemplated throwing away roughly fourteen years towards a twenty year retirement. Now I'm beyond the things that were affecting my morale, have about 15.5 years in, and preparing my family for my return to Iraq sometime in the fall.

Deployed life in the military actually isn't all that bad. Sure, there is the possibility of being virtually liquified by a roadside IED but there is a certain satisfaction to the work and the pay is better. Maybe he hesitant about getting a good job from a relative because he wants to make his own mark, on his own. My point isn't that I know him any better than you. That certainly can't be the case. Just that there are many more things to consider than a non-military outsider might realize.

Also, a judge dismissing charges or putting the condition that someone must join the military actually permanently disqualifies someone for military service. If that fact had been revealed during his processing, he would not have been allowed to enlist. FYI, I was a recruiter for nearly four years.

You're associating being "bright" with having no place in the military and "making no sense." What a joke your sentiment is.

By the way, can Jay's uncle offer him retirement at age 37? I didn't think so.

Don't we normally disagree on stuff? I honestly don't remember and I'm terrible enough with real names let alone screen names.

Anyway, I don't really take offense to the "bright" comment because many people think that military should be a lower option and that a bright kid would go a different way. Conversely, many people also think that a bright kid can go very far using the military as a stepping stone. And I'm personally looking very forward to the age of 38!

Yes, we do, but berating someone's decision to enlist "because they're bright" and "better than that" pisses me off deeply. Why? Because I had to deal with that crap from my father when I made enlistment a real possibility for myself. It's a personal decision and people should butt the **** out of it. It's as if these people have it in their heads that only delinquints join the military. Time for a reality check. The military opens possibilities that just aren't there otherwise. Take me, for instance. I'll be damned if I will even be able to get in as an officer, because my college academics are very poor. But this military-investigating college flunkee delinquint managed to score a 94 on the asvab. Go figure.

Why do you assume I've never been in the military? I have.



The charges weren't dismissed. It was his sentence. He was required to go through boot camp. When he got out, within a week, he was hit with a random drug test. So he was sent back to boot camp. While he was there the second time he told them he didn't want to do this any more and they threw him in the stockade for a week. After which, he completed boot camp. Not only did he complete it, but he was placed in charge of his unit (in the navy the title was either Apoc or Aroc (can't remember) so not sure what it is for the Army). When he completed boot camp they asked him to enlist and if he did they would start him at E-3 and send him to an A school and he'll become an E-3. So he decided to join (mostly to stay out of trouble).

Oh, and FYI, recruiters don't know half as much as they think they know. There's a 3-in Binder of Regulations for Recruitment. The funny part is, not every recruiting station even has one. They ussually just keep a summerized version that covers the most common regulations that are encountered.

Also, my comment about him being bright had nothing at all to do with the military. It was the simple fact of communicating that he was bright enough to do other work, such as a desk job. If I hadn't, it could of been assumed that all he could do was manual labor. Please don't jump to conclusions in the future. If something is unclear, ask.

Sir, I never associated socialism with capitalism. In fact, I'd like you to point out to me where you see this. Because I sure as hell can't find it.

And okay, you've been in the military. How long were you in, when were you in, and where were you stationed?

Probably the reserves.

Well, no offense, but you didn't sound very knowledgable of military issues.



So this bright kid that could do so much more or better got in trouble and sent to boot camp, did drugs, and went back to boot camp? So he wasn't sentenced to join the military, he was sentenced to one of those civilian boot camps? Well that is certainly a different story. Just to clarify, what branch is he in. Army or Navy? I'm assuming Army




It really doesn't matter what a recruiter knows or not and I'm unfamiliar with some 3 in binder. I do know that Army Regulation 601-210 is less than an inch thick and all regulations are easily Googled so access isn't an issue. Also, it is not only the recruiter's responsibility but the MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station) to screen applicants to ensure they meet qualifications. And, let's face it, many recruiters try to get applicants to conceal things and the MEPS certainly knows this.

I never said you associate Socialism with Capitalism. I said you associated Socialism with Conservitive Values.



2 Months, Shortly before 9/11, Great Lakes.



How's that? You simply assumed. My brother served in the Marines, Grandfather was in the Navy, and I have numerous friends (young and old) who've served in the military. I ask them questions all the time reguarding a variety of issues.



It wasn't a civilian boot camp. Army. He recently got promoted to Corporal (after his last tour of Iraq). He's in a Bradley unit.



Wrong, it's the MEPS facilities job to do a mental test (ASVAP and the Advance Test if they qualify (like I did)) and physical test. They also process the enlistment. It's the job of the recruiter to screen them before tax payer dollars are wasted (like the were on me). In my case, 6 months before I enlisted, I went to the hospital for what's called "Spontaneous Pnemothorax" (Spontaneoue Lung Collapse). 10% of the air in my left lung spontaneous leaked into the bag that surrounds the lungs (for no "apparent" reason). I was already feeling better by the time we decided to go to the hospital. X-Ray taken a couple days later showed no evidence of it ever happening (got to love having a fast metabolizim). At any rate, I disclosed this to my recruiter who retrieved my medical papers and included them with my paper work to MEPS. The Doctor at MEPS asked me about it. I told him what happend and he approved me. When I got to Great Lakes, they informed me of a regulation that states that you must not have a reoccurence of spontaneous pnemothorax for a minimum of 3 years before enlistment. Now, both the Doctor at MEPS and the Doctors I saw at Great Lakes agreed that I was incredibly heathly. However, the regulation stands and I was seperated.

The point, is that if the Recruiter has known the regulation at hand, then I would of never even of gone to MEPS.

And just an intresting note. Not to long after I arrived at great lakes I had to go and do a security background check as I was entering to receive advance training in the area of Intelligence Specialist. Anyhow, while I was hanging around those offices walking around and talking to all the people I had to in regards to my background check, I over heard that they were struggling to get 10 new barracks and accomodations set up as they were anticipating a large increase in recruits in the comming months. Not even 2 months after I left there, 9/11 happend...

Their truncation of freedom of expression is an idea unpopular to you, and here you go pontificating about how they shouldn't vote.

They're just using your system against you.

I'm not saying they shouldn't vote. They have every right to vote. I personally hope to god they don't, but I'm not going to go to extreme measures to stop them.

It just scares me that this is our future generation, you know, the one that's going to lead the most powerful nation in the world in a few years.



By association, you accused me of accompanying Socialism and Captialism. Either way, my point still stands--I didn't, though they CAN mix.

So your experience is limited to your processing and sometime spent in basic training?



I'm not assuming. The statements you are making lead me to believe that you don't actually know very much about this topic. You are making false statements. Not intentionally. You just think you know things that you don't. Again, this isn't a personal comment.



Okay, so this still makes no sense. A judge cannot sentence someone to join the Army. You don't know the real or whole story.



I'm not wrong. You can't honestly think your one time processing makes you more qualified than four years direct experience in the field in question.

A recruiter prequailifies applicants. The MEPS conducts the ASVAB, Medical Exam, any special tests (there is no "Advanced Test" although that's probably just what they told you in layman's terms). Your recruiter wouldn't have disqualified you based on your condition. If he did things the right way he would have sent your medical documents for a "Med read" by the MEPS doctors. If the correct information was furnished to them and they failed to disqualify you for a disqualifying condition, they simply screwed up. Hard to believe just based on my experience as they always seemed to be able to find ways to disqualify people. If your recruiter did things the corrupt way he could have done anything from omitting a page of your medical records to using white out and a copier to remove disualifying information, to actually scanning and manipulating the documents. Trust me, I've heard and seen alot in my time as a recruiter. I could go on, and may ellaborate later, but I'm at work now.



ummm, and?

Seeing as how Wookie here's been in active duty (I do believe) and has been outside of the country, AND has had more time spent in the military, I'll take his word over yours, Friend14. I do believe you lose this time around. And the obligatory--

Wookie wins.

9/11 was a conspiracy to get people to join the armed forces. Duh.

Oh. Did it work?

Well, there are people in the armed forces, aren't there?

Oh my... I agree. I can't believe I just agreed with Wookie 06 and Dj Yoshi in ONE post. I feel like I need a shower now.

"Bottom line of my belief is that there should be more concentration on what's going on our own soil. Cleaning up our own problems (and weirdo's, psycho’s, terrorists (ie. KKK, Gangs, ect). What right do we have in trying to help others clean up their country when we can't even clean our own country up? It's like a high school drop-out trying to teach a college class. It just doesn't make rational sense to me, though feel free to call me crazy. Also, we should be encouraging people to take care of themselves. There's not a shortage of jobs in this country (I don't care what any statistics say, if hundreds of Mexicans can come to the US and not have a problem getting a job, a natural born US citizen shouldn't have any trouble at all), so there's no excuses for someone not to have one...except for the fact that they can get paid to sit at home thanks to some government agency that's creating an ever-so-larger hole in our countries national deficit."

The problems you listed are never going to be cured completely. There is just no way. There is always going to be weirdos physchos gangs KKK etc. Thats a way of life.

Its ridiculous to expect such perfection. It would be nice but it's just not realistic.