http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/23/world/coffins_new040423

The pentagon has even made it 'law' that photos cannot be taken of returning bodies to US. Families of those who gave thier lives are not even allowed to go to the air base to greet thier deceased loved ones.

I don't even know where to begin. *shrug*.

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

Hmmm...
I just heard the guy on the radio being interviewed (from Veterans for Peace) say that Bush is asking for another 50 to 70 billion dollars for the Iraq operation.
Wow!

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

Bush sux. End of story.

Wait, so does Bush, Chirac, That Korean guy....


'm seeing a pattern

[This message has been edited by clan ruthervain (edited April 23, 2004).]

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Yeah, but America sucks so much anyway.

HAMBURGER!

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Map-Review | My Portfolio | The Matrix: Unplugged

Oh this thread is going to get ugly fast....

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"This thread is still alive? Someone should kill it."

I don't know about everybody else, but I'm really kindof burned out on this nonsense. Could somebody please find something else to argue about for a while besides what an evil dictatorship America is?

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Hiding the truth? People know the people are dead. Just seems like a matter of respect to me.

Did you read what the veterans said?
It's not that I fully agree with them, but I do believe freedom of speech is big in America. So when the government stamps it out, people should speak up.

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

I agree. While I understand where the government is coming from, since the photos of the coffins make each death seem more "real", I still think that this is just a teeeeny bit entirely unconstitutional, perhaps.

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WOOSH|-----@%

"The Pentagon has even made it 'law' that photos cannot be taken of returning bodies to US."

I'm going to assume that these "returning bodies" are those of U.S. solidiers killed in action. That being said, the Pentagon has complete jurisdiction over the matter of photos taken of dead soldiers or citizens under the orders of the Pentagon.

If you had said Congress, I might be agreeing with you.

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat.

to everyone whos just sick of topics like this, you gotta realize, no ones got crap against the american people on this boards. if anything, its just the government. so enough with the defensiveness. though i do agree that such repetitive topics dont excite the same gasp of surprise in me like they used to. i wouldnt put too much beyond a man who started bombing a country based on a hunch only he seemed to have. on a different note, i know its the pentagon's jurisdiction, however what about the part where the families cant even see it. and whats the reason behind it? generally government can get away with doing anything without even causing an uproar if they have a half assed decent reason for why they did it. even if it is made up, anyone know what it is? im a bit lazy to read the article right now

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

While I can see why taking pictures of a dead soldier that could have been blown in half and such is tasteless, I don't think it should be illegal and I think you should be able to see the coffins of dead soldiers. Otherwise you aren't given a chance to correctly honor them.

And Gandalf makes a good point. When you join the military, it owns you.

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I'd rather be insane than spineless--Sine

Photos of the remains of veterans that have sacrificed their lives for others should not be used for any purpose except when authorized by their families. We all know soldiers are dying. Politicizing their deaths is wrong. The purpose is a matter of respect for the fallen and their loved ones. Nothing more and nothing less.

Evad, I have participated in the escort of remains. All I can say is, trust me. Utmost care is given and everything involved revoles around the respect to the fallen service member and their families. It is easy to say but harder for me to convey that you need to trust me when I say there is no "hanky panky" going on with respect to this issue.

Seriously, just trust me my friend.


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Have you forgotten ...

Wolvie, the reason that we get defensive is because the government is supposed to represent what we believe. I personally think that Bush is a lot better then the other moron that was running. I also think he stands a bit of a chance at getting re-elected then Kerry has winning it. Right now, he just seems content with Bush bashing and not with topics at hand.

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Prowling out of the tundra, swinging a jeweled meat hammer, cometh Outlaw Torn! And he gives a gutteral bellow:

"I'm seriously going to hump you until you scream like a banshee!"

I dont get it... It's just a bunch of anonymous coffins with American flags drapped over them. They show them on the news all the time being carried by pollbearers in military uniform, what's the difference?

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

well outlaw i can tell ya right now that govt is sposed to represent the people but it doesnt always. and any fairly intelligent, aware human being understands that. bush was up against gore who i think would have made a better prez but that is my opinion. similarly so with kerry. i do agree that bush bashing is sort of repetative with kerry but theres not much to bush than pointing out his mistakes. because if he repeatedly didnt make them, hed be decent. hes done some good things. as for kerry alone, i think the guy would make a good prez. im just anti bush because either im a paranoid conspiracy theorist for thinking what im thinkin, or maybe ill end up being right 10 years down the road. but imo the guy is just hoarding and controlling. but like i said, my opinion. none the less im surprised you were so polite about what you said. people are so quick to manipulate what you say when you disagree with 'em.

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

I tend to stay out of disscussions like this cause its not like I can vote and change the siutation cause I'm not and American. But to be honest... Bush took action and he isn't perfect... no government is cause people make mistakes. I really don't belive this whole conspericy US wants to hide the truth thing... maybe I'm one of the nieve ones but I just find it hard to belive this conspericy stuff.

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

I really don't see anything wrong with the Pentagon trying to control the way fallen servicemen are shown to the public. If they didn't take such steps, it'd be very easy for an extremist to show the images in very disrespectful ways.

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Roach - Caught in the war of hemispheres.
0 of 14.

http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=worldNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4927613

Apparently some of the photos that everyone is making a fuss over have nothing to do with the Iraq war at all- They are photos of the coffins of the Columbia Astronauts.

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And everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon...
DSettahr's Homepage | Cantina Cloud | Rally NY

Do you have anything against Hamburgers? My father is from Hamburg, so watch what you're saying! ;-)

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Sorry for the lousy English

[This message has been edited by Impi (edited April 24, 2004).]

I find it interesting the thread starter is Canadian...Tehehehe

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"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."

-Albert Einstein

Humans are arrogant and selfish ****ers, no matter what.

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<landfish> FastGamerr > Satan

It's a 6' x 3' box with an American flag draped over it. The people who HAVE to see these need to get a better hobby, there shouldn't have to be a law to stop them from taking pics. They just have no respect and should be smacked with the soldier's M16 for it.

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"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"

AGREED! I'm an American, and I grew sick of all these little nit picky things LONG AGO. Just watch. Whoever gets elected next will get ripped on by Massassians. I 100% guarantee that.


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-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

-Tazz

conservatives rip on democratic candidates with stupid arguements and liberals rip on republican candidates with stupid arguements. It is the way it seems to work now.

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Is Wayne Brady going to have to choke a *****?

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited April 25, 2004).]

and the rest of the world for that matter

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Yep. And in the meantime, nothing ever gets done.

Whee for politics.

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"Biologically speaking,if something bites you it's more likely to be female"

I think it's just the way the photos were taken. They were taken in such a way that the viewer saw a lot of flag-draped coffins. The Pentagon just doesnt want these photos to affect American moral, and for once I agree with Wookie06, it is also a matter of respect, although I dont agree with keeping the grieving families from meeting the plane... actually I do, they need to have tight security on the military bases these days.



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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album comes out April 20th

is that really a disrespectufl way to photograph the dead? i mean, it's not like you see them mamed, or even normal bodies in open coffins.

if anyone is disrespected here, it is the american people's intelegance. our goverment, in this way, doesent want to aknolage the death toll this war is taking. this is because it would turn already waining support for it aginst the war effort.



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IMPORTANT NOTICE PLEASE READ

Employees dying on the job are faling to fall down. THIS PRACTICE MUST STOP as it becmes impossible to distinguish between death and the natural movement of he staf.

Any employee found dead in an upright position will be dropped from the payroll.

Thrawn > Mozart.

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Saberopus: omfq musical genuis j00 >mozart
Thrawn42689: Mozart = n00b

Attempting to hide the human cost of this war is a politicization of the soldiers' deaths. Meaningless appeals to nonexistent mores don't provide a reason to deny the American public the truth.

They have the laws so that photos of dismembered troops aren't paraded around the evening news where the soldier's family might have to witness their son's/daughter's body in such a way for a month and a half. Oh no! My freedom of press is being infringed upon! American citizens revolt!

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Roach - Caught in the war of hemispheres.
0 of 14.

[This message has been edited by Roach (edited April 25, 2004).]

Are you kidding? If anything, they should parade the death toll, because its ridiculously low.



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Ω of 14

Hell we've shot our own guys more than they've shot us.

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

I dont understand how people can think our government is trying to keep the public from knowing about the deaths in iraq when they issue a press release every time a death occurs.

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And everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon...
DSettahr's Homepage | Cantina Cloud | Rally NY

[This message has been edited by DSettahr (edited April 25, 2004).]

It's done because it is demoralizing both to our soldiers and the American people. It is also done out of respect to the fallen soldiers, not to pull the wool over the eyes of the people. Those fallen gave the ultimate sacrifice for their country treated as such, not plastered all over the media where they could be trivialized as another statistic.

This is not a new practice. It was also adopted in WWII. The US government/military did not think the people of America should see the images of fallen soldiers both out of respect for the dead, and because of the often gruesome nature of war fatalities. We do not want our fallen troops remembered as some slumped over corpse or even a coffin, but as the living and breathing individuals they were before they died.

It really pisses me off to see people rant and rave about how a conspiracy is keeping them from seeing pictures of the dead. It's downright disrespectful. I sure as hell know that you wouldn't want the pictures of someone you knew that died in war being displayed for all the world to see, especially if it was before he/she was placed in a coffin. We hear about soldiers that die constantly on the news. We shouldn't demand to see their dead body to prove that they died, or to show that their death was in vain. I can't stress how disrespectful that is.

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Current Maps | Inclusion | Restless Endeavor

There is a thin line between insanity and stupidity. I am that line.

Blood Asp: Reporting deaths at all is demoralizing. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.

I've lived in the Bible Belt among extrodinarily conservative people for a dozen years and have yet to hear anyone say that photographing soldiers' coffins is disrespectful. If anything the photographs add humanity to what threatens to be a dehumanized statistic. Os trivalizes more than 700 deaths because he doesn't understand them as anything more than a number.

It's not that they don't want Americans to know. They don't want Americans to have a visual of any kind so they may start to change thier minds about support.
Numbers are just numbers. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

You'd change your mind if that picture was someone you knew.

Obviously, you skimmed past the link to another article, which clearly states that the policy is, "out of respect for the families of the dead soldiers."

I was in AFJROTC through high school, and we were taught about the many customs the armed forces goes through for a fallen soldier. You wouldn't believe the amount of orgization that takes place for one fallen soldier's funeral and events that lead up to it. What's done is not to cover anything up, it's to show the utmost gratitude and respect for a person that died. Hell, just like DSettahr said, press releases are issued for every death.

What's laughable is that people are in such a tizzy about a photograph, when you can see coffins being unloaded off cargo planes when they land in the US on the nightly news (Observe the way fallen soldiers are taken off the plane. It's more of the customs stuff I was talking about.)