Since most mods are mostly incompatible with each other, and since most people (other than modders themselves) haven't the foggiest how to merge mods, I've decided to do a generic game improvements mod. I'm looking for suggestions. Here's what I have so far:

1. Evasion. Hotkey that will let you do flips, rolls, and handsprings.
2. New crouching animation. Now you army crawl.
3. New Sabers
4. Replacing Conc rifle with improved version, should be more lore-accurate.
5. Stormtrooper rifle would have a secondary fire of a stun arc, if I can figure out the cog for it. Would freeze targets on hit for about 10-15 seconds, but would be short range and ammo-expensive.
6. Bryar would be replaced with BlasTech DL-44 pistol. Might have scope for secondary fire, if I can wing it.
7. Mines would have a remote mode.
8. Force powers added for multiplayer: force push and force saber throw. Would get if you had any force skill, but not with no-force games. Might also include a REALLY expensive absorb blaster boltpower.
9. ADDED: Improved force skills. Force Health and Force Sight will be modified. Force health will be able to heal others if you target them, and force sight will be able to tell you others' health and shield values if you target them.
10. ADDED: Force speed will also increase saber blocking frequency and attack rate. I figure that force speed would also increase reflexes, so this makes sense.
11. ADDED: From suggestions below, there will be a stamina system. Running too long and jumping too much will lower your stamina to the point where you can only walk. Forse speed will eliminate your dependency on stamina for a time, allowing to run longer. It will also increase your speed like it did before, but by a much lower amount.
12. ADDED: Improved saber system. You will be able to choose between the seven saber styles, damage and blocking will both be upped, and you MAY even be able to do the fabled focusing-of-your-mind told about in many stories that allows you to focus on one other saber dueler and increase your blocking against him/her.
    [/list=1]
    
    If you would like to help with any of this, please tell me. My website will soon be remodeled and there would be a developer's page for projects like this. I'M REALLY LOOKING FOR GOOD COGGERS!

interesting

This line added after writing the rest of the reply:
Take everything I say with a grain of salt, you asked for suggestions so here they are.

In my mind, a game improvements mod would be purely aesthetic possibly with minor gameplay balancing (eliminate rapid grip and rapid lightning for example). What you described sounds no different than any other random JK mod.

That being said, like 99% of what you described could be done, with the exception of activating switches with a projectile (all switches would need to be able to be "damaged" for this to work, as projectiles don't send the "activated" message to what they hit). Basically, gun activate-able switches would be level-dependent.

Evasion is a bad idea as a new hotkey. If you wanna go with this, I'd suggest detecting crouch after a jump and then performing a specified action based on direction of thrust.

Kicking is a big yawn. No one would use it. Just take the fists and turn them into a complex hand-to-hand fighting cog where patterns of primary and secondary fire presses coupled with direction of thrust perform different attacks.

New crouching animation is a good idea. Have you ever tried walking (in real life) like you do in JK when crouching? A new animation coupled with a cog that restricts your movement speed would likely work best here.

As for glowsabers, go with what you like. Personally, I don't care for the glowsabers style and never have. The hard, jagged edges of the default lightsaber is good enough for me. The actual combat is what needs an overhaul. An always colliding lightsaber coupled with a set damage amount if the blade touches an enemy should dictate the attack style; fast swings which attempt to cover large areas. The default double-swing of super damage has gotta go.

Playing dead will just slow down gameplay and players would just learn to shoot at corpses. Also, having to bind new hotkeys as annoying.

Concussion rifle converted to sniper rifle would be a step in the right direction. Explosions ruin FPS gameplay. One shot kills are never smart though. Someone with full health and shields should take 2 hits minimum.

ST Rifle having a stun secondary would be fun and isn't particularly hard to do in theory; no one's ever decently implemented this that I've ever seen though. Rough instructions using a no static.jkl method:
1. Fire Projectile X set to do 0 damage.
2. CaptureThing() the Projectile.
3. Removed message fires when the projectile hits.
4. Use a get all enemies within X range COG snippet to figure out who will get stunned; also create the stun visual effect.

That's how I'd do it anyway. Projectile X could be a thermal det with explosive flags stripped if you wanted an arc shot.

Crossbow replacement is a matter of taste so I have no feedback for this.

Mine with a remote mode is yet another doable thing. Here I'd use a method similar to the following:
1. Lay down a timed sequencer charge and SetLifeLeft() to some large value (a minute+).
2. Record the mine in an array with both it's thing number and its signature.
3. Detonate button (crouch + fire?) runs through the array comparing thing numbers to signatures checking for existance.
4. GetLifeLeft the mines, and if greater than, say, 5 seconds. DestroyThing() the mine, have player FireProjectile() an explosion and teleport the explosion to the mine.

New models are less important than overhauling the default models, in my opinion. However, new models of decent quality never hurt.

Force Push would be better suited as a replacement for pull (as pull is really flippin' annoying), but if you're gonna throw in a new hotkey, Push if force allowed is the way to go I guess.

Saber Throw needs to potentially cost the person using it their saber (no magically appears back in hand if you fail to grab it BS) and would probably exist best as a fire mode of the saber, rather than as a force power/new hotkey. Possibly a really fast press of primary then secondary fire or vice versa (essentially pressing both fire buttons at once), however, this'd restrict melee combat with the saber. I think I'd vote against including Saber Throw.

Force Health healing teammates is fine, a SkillTarget message'd do the trick, though you'd want a ClassCog wrapper to make sure a level with a custom kyle.cog won't break this Force Heal Other power. I'd suggest making Force Health use ALL of the players mana, regardless of how much they have, and as long as they have the minimum required (for gameplay balance reasons).

Force Sight would also require a SkillTarget (or SendTrigger, but triggers suck) since that data is only local. The other player's computer could then send you a jkStringOutput() with the requested info. You could have them SkillTarget you back with the requested info if you wanted some way to access the numbers for use in cog. This power would make the most sense as a seperate frce power anyone could use (as long as they're at least a little force sensitive).

QM

Interesting. But many of the features you suggest are included in SBX 3.1. Perhaps you should take SBX, and modify it with your new features, with the permission of the author of course. Unfortunately, he is done making SBX mods for JK.

My next game programming assignment is to rewrite the JK engine in OpenGL. Due by next Wednesday.

>.>

Well then you better get to work old wizard man.

Thanks for the input. I had a suspicion that the activated on shoot wouldn't work, but it was a cool idea. If anyone has another idea for secondary fire on the sniper, please tell me.

Quib Mask: Thanks for your opinion. I am going to keep evasion on a hotkey, because I have that mostly worked out already, but if you have any ideas on what else would be useful that I could put on the other hotkeys, I am open to suggestions. I may just do new saber colors, but I am really trying to figure out how to implement glowsabers. I heard there was some kind of a kit or tutorial to do it, but I haven't found it yet. Saber damage will be adjusted, so don't worry about that. I was thinking of putting saber throw as a secondary fire, but that would create the problem of quickly getting the saber back in no-force games, because having it automatically come back to you when you can't use telekinesis is unrealistic. Always colliding will be turned on, so don't worry about that. Also, the new force powers won't replace any old ones, you would just get them if you had any force whatsoever. Check out SBX 3.1 to see what I mean. What I meant about the ST rifle stun arc was the blue arc that is seen in Episode IV when Leia gets shot.

pogo_air: That's where I got a lot of inspiration. I'm going to try to contact the author, because I like a lot of stuff in there, and trying to do it as well or better would be extremely difficult, so I want to extract several things out of there instead of re-writing them from scratch.

JediGandalf: Sounds exciting. I don't know OpenGL myself, but from what I've heard, it should open up some new possibilities.

Another functions have been added to the initial list. Check it out.

I'm going to be gone on vacation for about a week. Please don't wait until I come back to post ay suggestions I have.

I knew what you mean by the ST Rifle stun function; it's probably the most suggested and attempted mod to that weapon since JK modding began. No one's ever done a good job with it that I've seen though.

You added changes to force speed in your initial post; this is a horrible horrible force power (by default). Since all player damage in JK is client-side, and projectiles can be a little out of sync, force speed makes guns (well, all attacks really) nearly useless in MP. If you're gonna make force speed improve reflexes, I suggest making it NOT affect runspeed, or give a drastically smaller boost to runspeed than it does by default.

I'd almost suggest making default runspeed slower and have force speed put you just at or barely over original JK default runspeed. Heh, or add a stamina system that forces players to walk...

QM

I like what they did in the Galactic Civil War mod -- force speed gives a short burst of speed in the direction you're running, like in DBZ

The original force speed just makes it too hard to hit anyone moving that fast... which is why I always had 4 stars on speed

Yeah, Speed will be undergoing some fairly substantial changes. It'll probably be just reflexes, but it may also be simply that you can run longer--I like the stamina thing. Is it possible to force the player to walk?

You could probably ParseArg() something... movespeed maybe?

There was a mots SP level that did it -- Streets of Mos Eisley

[edit] Yeah, he changed the value for 'maxthrust' from 2.0 to 1.5 -- about dflt walking speed if memory serves (like when you hold forward without the always run option set)
dang I was really slow

SetActorExtraSpeed(player, -1.0);

Your default runspeed is 2.0

1.0 (2.0 - 1.0) would probably be a decent walking speed. You could play with various values 'til you get a good "I'm tired" speed. Since most people play with "run always on" or whatever the setting is, just have stamina decrease when moving (or decrease when thrust in any given direction is greater than X, thrust means the player is holding a movement key, this way, players who actually walk won't lose stamina).

You can't force a player to walk, but you can decrease their run speed so they might as well be walking.

QM

The UR mod we worked on has a very nice stun system that works quite well. PM me and I'll send it to you.

What I'd suggest is, instead of adding a bunch of 'fun' stuff, balance the gameplay a bit better.

Make sabers functional against any weapon. A raildet can be slashed out of the air, etc. Also, making damage much higher, (Try one hit kills for body shots) but lowering the reach and likelyhood of hitting would be fantastic. Heck, if you added an autoblock to the mix that blocked in whichever direction you pressed, then had the lockon system that was in untold stories, you could essentially have a MUCH more fluid combat system. Only being able to lock onto other players that are using a saber would be key, or people would just spam the saber against gun users by locking on, running at them, and swinging.

Force speed should effect the reaction time of the player. Speeding up animations and perhaps adding milleseconds of time between button pressed and damage, and lowering this number based on stars in force speed, would make for far better saber fighting, and if done with weapons, would make a far better gunning system.

heck, you could make response for everything. If a few nanoseconds of wait time were added to the movement keys, an already moving player would have a far better chance at hitting a stationary, THEN moving target. Likewise, 2 moving targets and a shot goes off and is about to his the player, changing directions would take a moment of hesitation. force speed would lesson this moment of hesitation, and increase functionality of the force speed ability.

Force jump was far too overelaborate, and did nothing for combat in JK. If lunges were implimented, I think force jump would be VERY benificial. More damage, NO blocking for sabers, and a one hit kill would be possible.

I think stun would only slow gameplay speed. So would a fake death key. And then, unless it effected blocking and attacking, a dodge key would also be a waste of time. If you want to IMPROVE JK, these things would only detract from it's FPS experience.

A sniper rifle is cool, and all, but it encourages camping, and slow gameplay. Maybe a slight zoom, like the weapons in CSS, or the aim mode in other games, would work far better. This would give an aiming advantage, but wouldn't give a long distance advantage. Same with remote detenators: Remotes allow for camping. Why not have trip wires with hard to see lasers, or maybe make the IR goggles suddenly useful and make the lasers VERY hard to see, unless wearing them.

Lower runspeed dramatically. Gameplay speed is NOT detracted from, as JK is SO high paced at the moment, that it's difficult for most to play, as it's too fast for reaction times, which means 'first come, first served.' Whoever sees who first wins, usually.

Most importantly, I don't think many of us much care about player models. Yes, they're cool, but gameplay is key for an enhancement project. Besides, Shred is updating the models anyway. You should just focus on gameplay.

JediKirby

Slowing down gameplay would not be a good thing.

A few points:
Playing dead would add a whole element of lameness to JK. Besides, bodies dissapear when you respawn so any bodies on the ground would be people feigning death.

Dont you dare touch my beloved conc rifle. Sniping in jk can not be done well since it has to mean moving the camera. Try sniping mods, you'll see the various problems with it. Weapons you cant move with suck in any game. Just look at the sniper rifle in JO. It sucked because you couldnt walk while zoomed in.

Stun gun would prove lame. Even moreso than the carbonite gun in MotS because it would be 1 hit instant freeze.

The crossbow is probably the most underrated weapon in the game. At full charge you can kill anyone with one (well technically 5) hit at close range.

Giving mines remote control was done in mots. They're practically uselss unless you hide somewhere you can see the mine (or include a camera like mots did). The standard proximity mines were more useful.

A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He submits assignments precisely when he means to!

Hehe, this was what I was gonna say in my original reply, but then opted for the "won't voice my opinion" thang.

I agree with Kirby and TKWSN about the remote mines; they'd be useless and promote slow gameplay. If you're deadset on including them, maybe make them proximity mines that can be remotely detonated. In default JK, force speed lets you zip by prox sequencers without getting hurt by the explosion, if you didn't lower runspeed, but added remote detonation, you could detonate them earlier than if they were set off by proximity and blow up that speed using jerk. =D

I don't agree about the atun gun though. Consider this; just make it a slow gun. Maybe it drains all of the target's stamina or just outright lowers their runspeed.

QM

Edit: Oh yeah, and I don't agree about the sniper rifle being bad. Since projectiles and damage are client side, hitting with it'd be a pain in the butt, and getting rid of the concussion rifle (while you're at it, axe the rail detonator) would be a good thing. Splash damage from a non-arc trajectory weapon = baaad.

Personally, I think Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II is basically the best PC FPS ever.

Kirby: I'll look into your suggestions. I don't like the reaction thing--people would think their game was running funny--but I really like the locking-on system suggestion. If it could be done, it would be awesome. I agree that saber-fighters should be the ones who can be locked on, but this would make saber battles last forever. Of course, most of the ones in the movies were a lot longer than most of the ones I've experienced in JK, so this may not be a bad thing. People with guns should be able to be defended against by looking at them. If you are looking almost directly at them, you should be able to block them. I don't know if it could be detected, but it would simulate the fact that you should only be able to block something that you were aware of. Several times I have blocked shots that I had no clue were coming.

The sniper rifle will encourage camping, but it'll have a major disadvantage--you can't move while it's equipped. While a sniper may be able to find a spot to sit and kill, once their location is figured out, their basically a sitting duck.

I hated the crossbow. Partially because it was a bad mock-up of Chewie's bowcaster, partially because of the (in my opinion) bad projectile, and partially because I never really used it except for two levels in single player. If you've ever played MotS, you know that a fully-charged BlasTech can achieve a one-hit kill, and you don't have to be at close range. Plus, with a dual-wielding cog, faster rates of fire can be achieved.

I agree that remote mines are mostly useless, but they are good for laying traps and for team battles.

Okay, playing dead will not be included. It was a fun idea, but I, too, agree that it has no real purpose because people would quickly spot a faking-death player, and for those who didn't, it's a really, really cheap shot.

Does anyone know if it's possible to have exploding powerups? Here's a situation: You and your opponent are evenly matched offensive-wise, but you have the slight upperhand in that you have about fifty shield points left, while you decimated his. Suddenly, a conc rifle respawns--and it's closer to him. He dashes for it. To keep him from gettign it and immediatly blasting your sorry nerf-herding behind, you shoot the rifle itself--which proceeds to explode, damageing your opponent to the point where one blaster shot'll kill him, giving you a point. I want this situation possible with my mod. Can anyone help?

EDIT: Now that I've read Quib Mask's last post, (and I agree with him) the stun gun will simply eliminate stamina, lower your speed a bit, and drain some force--so you can't force-speed your way out of it easily.

EDIT AGAIN: Okay, so now the TJKWSN has told me about the raildets in MotS (which I didn't know about) I'm going to start looking for a way to implement exploding powerups. If anyone can point me to a cog to look at, I'd be grateful. Also, the rail detonator won't be taken out--some pure muscle is needed in any FPS game--but the ammo you can hold will be reduced to 10. Fair enough?

Exploding powerups is possible.

Remember the raildets in mots? If you shot those they went off and fired across the room

Raildets are a perfect weapon in a game. They're slow projectiles, so no attacking someone from across the map. You have to be within a suprise-radius of the attacked. Lowering the amount of them is silly, since all the other weapons are pretty underpowered. It's NOT hard to dodge a raildet, and if someone's close enough to rail you, most of your shots are going to kill them.

Duel DL-44 is stupid. I'm sorry to debunk one of your ideas, but that's just stupid. It's uncharacteristic of a starwars game, it's too modern of an idea, and it's way too cheasy. If anything, the DL-44 should replace the bryar, and the crossbow kept. Bounce remains, and secondary is a scope. Technically, that's what the blaster was for. Chewie just used it as a main weapon because of his affinity for close quarters combat. He didn't NEED a close quarters gun. This way, you'd have your sniper rifle, I'd have my bouncing projectile, and we'd all have our conc rifle.

Now the conc could be dramatically changed. My impression is that the conc rifle (According to the SW universe) is more like a shotgun of dynamite. Lowering it's movespeed, decreasing it's damage, and giving it a spread would help. Small explodions all spreading from the same point. It'd still have explosive properties, it wouldn't be spammable, it'd cause more damage up close (But damage to the user) and would be useless from a far range. Sounds like a nice power weapon with limitations, this way.

One thing I'd really like to see is reloading. JK may have a very big DM feel, but if damage were increased per shot, and clips were used, it'd allow people stretegic time to choose their weapons. It'd also allow you to control balance by giving more powerful weapons, like the raildet, a lot of ammo, but very slow reload time and frequently.

By the way, something that always pissed me off is that shields were quite useless. They were basically an extention of health. I had someone write me a cog for a recharging shield. So if you're in a firefight, and you continuously get hit, you're going to die. Between firefights, your shield regenerates. Explosions take your real health, energy takes your shield health, and this allows for lesser players to use spray and pray tactics, and not continously become attacked, and become picked off quickly with weapon spammers.

JediKirby

There's nothing about Kirby's post that I didn't like. The reasoning about the rail detonator convinced me my view on it was wrong (no sarcasm here, when I look at some PlanetSide weapons in comparison, all it takes it to give an AE projectile a low velocity and it fits in balance-wise).

I think batting the rail dets away with a lightsaber would be a little weird, wouldn't hitting them make them explode? However, you could always make them force pushable...

As for having to go get your lightsaber if you throw it and have no force powers... just don't let the user throw it if they don't have the force.

I'm not sure if this was exactly how Kirby was describing the concussion rifle, but maybe a spray of shrapnel would be an appropriate replacement? Or is that totally not what you were describing Kirby?

I don't care either way on the pistol issue. I've always hated there being a "default" gun in games as you don't upgrade it and it's rarely used. Maybe replace the bryar with the pistol and if you loot someone else's you have 2? I'm not a big fan of dual guns myself.

QM

All hail Kirby!

Bumped.

Oh, I also had a better idea for my reaction time thing:

When already moving, immediatly changing speeds shouldn't be instant, and currently in JK, they really aren't. If I'm running right, then switch to left, there's a "Drag" time. If this effect could be gotten rid of for force speed, and basically, the sensativity of key presses be extremed? I don't know.

My other thought was that we don't want saberists to just lock onto eachother, and never be able to get back shots. I believe the lockon should remain only if you remain so far in front of the enemy. as soon as you step behind or next to the enemy, the lock pulls off. This would be hardly noticable if you quickly spun around, but would allow for very articulate and 'fluid' saber combat. I think including the seven different 'saber styles' would allow you to incorporate many different combinations of moves with other ideas I've got. If you'd like to hear my ENTIRE idea for a complete saber combat system, contact me on AIM xone009 or MSN with jEDIkIRBY007@hotmail.com.

JediKirby

Kirby, I agree with almost all you have to say. Would you like to help with this project? I need someone who knows cog fairly well--I can work my way through it, but it'll go a lot faster if I have someone with more experience. I would love to her what you have to say about saber fighting. I think this mod, which started as a simple evasion mod--quick moving equals surprise attacks--is now going to be a Jedi overhaul. New force powers, modified force powers, Saber fighting improvements, along with a few modified weapons--who could ask for more! I also have a few other people--names to be revealed at a later date--who should help with making a custom level for it. JediKirby, I like your ideas, and would appreciate your help with this. I don't have any instant messengers because I've heard too many horror stories about transmitted viruses and unwanted chatters, but my e-mail is thesilentpyro@alltel.net, and I'm on it pretty frequently. As soon as I get back home I'm going to overhaul my website, and there will be more contact stuff there.

I think an overhauled saber system is needed. Mods like SBX and GotG were great--my favorites to date--but I hated the fact that they left out the seven saber styles. I think the player should be able to choose one of the saber styles to fight with at the beginning of the match, and then to keep them from pulling cheap shots, should be forced to stick with that fighting style until the match is over. Animations for the new moves are no problem (animating is my specialty). Also, saber damage should be upped--unless people are using force protection or have super shield, two-three hits should kill--which is where fancy fighting moves, force speed, and locking on to improve blocking comes in. I would also like it to be where you can cut off people's arms, so they're still alove but can no longer fight until they get healed. But that may be taking it too far. Anyway, as I said above, I really need some good cog writers to help me with this. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

OMFG WTF OMG OMFG STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I highly suggest you get a messanger, as doing anything else is going to quickly damper any progress on the mod.

I'm no cogger, only a Modeler, and idea man. I can do both quite well, and specifically for JK. I also know a lot about JK in general, and know the basic logistics of cog.

Get trillian, which is by far the most stable and 'safe' program there is. don't directly connect to anyone you don't know, and don't connect with them until they talk, and you'll be absolutelly fine. ANY virus' transmitted through AIM or Yahoo need YOUR user input before it'll come.

JediKirby

Well, I could use a modellor as well, and I like your ideas. So far I have an animator (me), a texturer, and level man, and a modellor--all that's left is a cogger. We can probably pull through it with our team's combined knowledge, but if we had an experienced cogger I would be very grateful. JK, what time zone are you in? If we are both in close to the same time zones, we could set up a chat time on my website. But, as I don't own the computer I work on (it's my dad's) and it's already overloaded with crap, I'm going to stay away from messengers for now. Maybe sometime in the future, but at least not until we can get te network working so I can get the internet on my decent computer.

For anyone watching this thread, tell me what you think should be added/taken away/changed or whatever. This is looking like it's going to turn into another saber-overhaul mod, but it should be a decent one and it will have some other improvements as well. The main saber overhauls are going to be the force powers, the stamina system, and the saber fighting styles--you will be able to choose which of the seven your character will use, each with its advantages and disadvantages. I am also debating whther to put in a Sith lightstaff, but I would either have to replace another weapon--which I don't want to do, one slot for a saber is enough in my mind--or else give it to all players off the bat and give them a way to switch between the two, which I don't want to do because it's cheap. But tell me what you think.

EDIT: VOTE FOR SABER TYPE!

For my Ganeral Game Improvements Mod, now turned into a saber mod with some additions, I am debating on what kind of sabers to use. I was originally going to use glowsabers, but this is a mod for the GENERAL, so I thought I'd let you guys decide. What do you think?

EDIT: If you decide on totally new sabers, I will post screenshots of them later once I get them, so you can see what you think.

Get new ones, man. no one wants you to jack their mod and call it yours.

I'm pretty sure no one would mistake glowsabers as an original work; we've all seen them used over and over. All he'd have to do is tack in "Glowsaber style by soandso" (like a jillion mods have done) and no one would say anything bad... assuming the saber animations and the rest of the mod are any good.

QM

Hey guys, I think he shouldnt include Lightsabers at all. After all George Lucas came up with them, not him, and he would just be ripping off George Lucas' work and it would be un-original.

[/sarcasm] :p

I'm US-central timezone. We could easily meet in the massassi chatlet, or whatever. I'd still really suggest you get trillian ASAP, as it'll move this mod on a lot faster.

I also think that, if we can design a good system around it, a sithsaber, and even a duel saber system could easily be designed. I'll talk more about that when we speak.

Oh, and glowsabers seem rather odd looking to me. I think it's very possible to do a blade system similar to SBX, but not use glow, as glow really didn't have much realism to it at all.

JediKirby

The BEST thing about Jedi Knight is the intense sense of speed.

Okay, now that I'm back, I can get down to work--having another week of spring break helps, though . From the look of the polls, we're going to be including new sabers, if that's okay with our texturer. Of course, that means I'm going to have to figure out a new way to do the saber throw--I was going to use SBX's method, tweaked to my liking, but that uses glowsabers, so saber color was set in-game and it was a simple matter to match up variables to have your thrown saber have the same color. Now it's not so simple, especially since you can't detect the player's chosen saber color. Oh well.

Please, I'm really desperate for a good cogger. I think I've got all the other bases covered, but we need a good cogger--preferably someone who knows their way around saber mechanics. Please give me a message if you're interested.

come to #JKHub. Everyone there cogs. Everyone.

#JKhub? Can you give me a link, or is it a chat applet?

When you're in the chat applet, type '/join #jkhub' (without quotes) and you'll be there.

Thanks. Got it.

Where's the option for "Let it die already?"

I would close the poll, but that's moderators only. As it is, the thread was started without the poll (they added it on) and it has continued even now that I've decided to use new sabers. So the thread will stay, until we move the discussion to my site or some other place.