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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Penrose, quantum theories, and gravity.
Penrose, quantum theories, and gravity.
2005-05-11, 10:58 PM #1
I'll admit this is a crap thread because I have absolutely no references, BUT:

I was sitting in an orthodontist's waiting room, waiting, and I picked up a magazine. In my stupidity, I really can't remember what magazine it is, but it had this article about professor penrose, and how he might've finally explained why at (sub)atomic levels, particles can be in two places at once (quantum theories), but at macroscopic levels (IE humans), things cannot.

It had something to do with the fact that previous calculations did not take into effect the gravity force of these small objects (as according to einstein's theories of space-time with gravity), because people thought it was so small that it could be discarded. However, because it takes energy to maintain a thing in two spots, small things like subatomic particles could remain in that state indefinitely because gravity does not "rip" it back into it's one-state state of being -- while large things, like humans, revert from their as-a-whole two places at once state to their one place at one time state in a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, or something like that, due to the high amount of energy needed to maintain a human in two places as a result of the human's gravitational forces (human in two places = two large chunks of gravity warping spacetime, as opposed to one).

And then something about conducting an experiment with a half-reflective mirror and a speck of dust or something.

I've presented this really poorly, but by the chance that anyone read that article or has heard or seen anything about this, please feel free to point out any misconceptions or inaccuracies I've had n elaborate on this.
一个大西瓜
2005-05-12, 2:18 AM #2
Quantum Coherence is the reason you don't observe quantum phenomena above the level of subatomic particles.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-05-12, 5:32 AM #3
In theory, you could observe quantum stuff with macroscopic objects; the probability is just so vanishingly small that it's hardly worth worrying about. For example (and this is greatly simplified), say that any particle has a 50% chance of being in two places at once. For an object like a human to be seen in two places at once, this would require every single particle (~5*10^28 particles) to be in the same two places at the same time. Even not considering the fact that every particle has to be in the *SAME* place, the probability is on the order of 0.5^(5000000000000000000000000000). In other words, vanishingly small.
Stuff
2005-05-12, 5:56 AM #4
Intresting ideas can come around quantum but these discussions are radical and we can all assume things. However the way I see it, is that quantum is defined as you see it.

I often called this the element of 'fuzzy logic' where it is done to an exact level of the level. When I find a problem or try to come up with a new idea, I tend to think, think, think. When it gets brainstormed on paper, I can create my own mathematics based on it. Its strange, but hey I have an imaginative mind I can create mechanics of things if I needed to.

In your case, it has come from observation. That can be an advantage to solving the mechanics. Erm... Im lost in this.


Anyway hope you find out the mechanics of quantum. :)
'Its worth it all in the end when We Are On The Other Side Of The Moon and thats good enoguh for me"
2005-05-12, 7:22 AM #5
There is no 'fuzzy logic' concerning quantum mechanics.

Quantum physics adheres to the same level of empiricism as all science. Observation -> Explanation. Quantum physics is no different.

People that don't understand quantum physics often follow the "hey, quantum physics looks really CRAZY! therefore, anything CRAZY is possible!" line of thought. That's beyond 'fuzzy logic', that's just wrong.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-05-12, 8:24 AM #6
I think the misconception there is 'fuzzy' and 'probabilities'.

Mmmmmmmmm.... uncertainty principle....

drool...
2005-05-12, 9:25 AM #7
Let's see how long it takes for Friend14 to discover this thread.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2005-05-12, 5:58 PM #8
Quote:
Originally posted by Mort-Hog
Quantum Coherence is the reason you don't observe quantum phenomena above the level of subatomic particles.


Not observation -- why it "doesn't happen".
一个大西瓜
2005-05-12, 6:15 PM #9
Quote:
Originally posted by Emon
Let's see how long it takes for Friend14 to discover this thread.


Ah yes, and he'll explain how quantum physics and relativity are wrong, and try to educate us all in the ways of Time Cu- I mean "velocital physics"...
Stuff
2005-05-12, 8:25 PM #10
Pommy, it's the most recent issue of Discover magazine.
2005-05-12, 8:36 PM #11
Ah, okay.

If it's somewhere online, it'd be much easier to make this clear.
一个大西瓜
2005-05-12, 8:55 PM #12
Yo this ain't no fuzzy logic B. Hey, this quantum mechanics stuff sounds groovy; seems a lot like my far out ideas.
"When it's time for this planet to die, you'll understand that you know absolutely nothing." — Bugenhagen

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