I've gone over this a million times in my head, and it just doesn't make any sense to me.

The Jedi Council can see that Anikin is "The chosen one," and as prophecy has it, he is "To bring balance."

What they fail to see is that there is a freaking school for the Jedi, hundreds of Jedi, and a freaking ACADEMY for Jedi, and a whole 2 Sith. Do they not understand the meaning of 'BALANCE?' Balance is not a 5000 to 1 ratio, it's, as the OT shows us, 2 Jedi (Yoda and Ben) and 2 sith (Vader and The Emperor).

Does Yoda NOT have the jedi mind skills to see what's RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS FACE!? Obi says "You were suppost to be the chosen one!" and Anikin better reply: "No F-ing ****! I'm going to kill all of you except 2! That's Fing balance!" Maybe the PG-13 rating will allow him to say that, eh?

And exactly what 'foretelling' are these prophacies from? Is it just common knowledge that there's a chosen one? Is there some ancient text? Can some jedi see the future? Why is this fact so vague?

Most importantly, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

JediKirby

3

42

By bringing balance, perhaps they mean bringing balance to the Force itself. That doesn't mean a numerically balanced number of Jedi and Sith. It means a balance of light and dark energy. Sidious and Vader are so incredibly powerful that their dark energy equals that of the light energy of all the Jedi.

At least that's my theory.

NO TIS NOT

ITS MY LIFE

Sorry jEDIkIRBY, I don't completely see what you mean. I've thought about this thing too before, but what exactly do you mean?

the Jedi to Sith ratio is what kirb means
400+ Jedi to 2ish Sith

Actually, using your logic, Anakin did bring balance to the force because he helped slaughter a great deal of Jedi, leaving only 2 Jedi vs 2 Sith at the start of the OT.

None of the other Jedi could accomplish the high-wire.

That's... my point. Didja read my post? None of the uber-smart jedi realize that by Anikin being the chosen one, he's going to KILL OFF THE JEDI.

And yeah, one could argue that # of people != balance, but at the same time, I don't care how powerful they are; If all of the Jedi took on the emperer and vader, they'd win. That's just simple logic. 400 jedi slashing the hell out of 2 guys is a no brainer.

JediKirby

I don't think the balance of the Force refers to equality between Good and Evil. It has to do with Order and Chaos. Balance is a state of order, where everything is in its place and nothing is out of whack, while imbalance is a state of chaos, where everything is out of whack and nothing works properly.

The Jedi clearly try to maintain the balance of the Force, this is plain in the movies. The Sith, on the other hand, introduce chaos and imbalance by using the Dark Side to further their own ends.

Anakin brings balance to the Force when he kills the Emperor, destroying the Sith and ridding the Galaxy of the main imbalancers of the Force.

That's the explanation I like best, anyway. I think it fits what's presented in the movies better than the alternative.

Yeah, balance is restored when Anakin throws down Palpy.

And yes, certain Jedi can see the future, but if I remember right, this prophecy is thousands of years old.

[edit]Oh, and most prophecies are supposed to be generalized, so for all we know it could be Luke, who causes Vader's redemption, and later does the Academy and takes down a couple Palpy-clones

All force sensitive people at least subconciously anticipate and predict the future. That's why Han, Leia, Lando, etc never die and get away with all their crazy stuff. Jedi can see into the future, but the future is never certain.

I could've sworn I posted something very similar along these lines not to long ago.... meh.

Still, it's totally true, and one of the MINOR reasons I dislike the new films. Major ones would be the fact that the acting blows, the writing blows, and the CGI is overused.

We watched Ep1 during dinner. I had to leave the room. I cannot STAND to watch that movie anymore. Unless, of course, the MST3K team did it.

Except Han and Lando aren't Force-Sensitive.

This I can accept. I just don't find it very prevelent in the movies.

The issue of balance in the force was perfectly explained in Attack of the Clones. You just had to make the connection yourself. "The Dark Side clouds everything." "I think it's time we inform the senate our ability to use the force has diminished." It is perfectly clear that the force is tilted towards the Dark Side. Sidious is supremely powerful while Yoda, Mace, and the rest of the jedi are experiencing a severe loss of power. Anakin destroying the Emperor destroyed the imbalance the dark side was creating over the light.

Maybe just a little!

I meant force attuned. Force sensitive means the potential to become a Jedi, or close to. At least, that's what the card game said. And I think that's what other books have said too.

In "The Unifying Force" it was discussed that... I can't remember.
Crap.
They said that...
Something... something about a living Force...
I dunno, it has something to do with Qui Gonn's berations of Obi Wan at the beginning of TPM and Yoda's lectures in ESB and RotJ.

-Something about how there is no light or dark side... I dunno, been a while.

jEDIkIRBY, "You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force?"

When does it say it has to be a Jedi?

And who says the prphecy is coming true at all or is even accurate?

Perhaps Lucas is taking advantage of a little dramatic irony. Everyone in the theatre knows that "bring balance to the force" is quite literal---he will balance the numbers. But the jedi seem to have some sort of other interpretation for that prophecy, almost a comment on religion, really.

oooooh, nice comment!

Since when is a jedi good and a sith bad?

Isn't a jedi just someone that uses the force, and wasn't Darth Vader not exactly a "sith?"

The sith, I thought, were an ancient people that practiced the powers of the dark side of the force.

The chosen one is supposed to destroy the sith. That is how balance is brought to the force.

Vader kills Palpatine in RotJ. He brings balance to the force. He is the chosen one.

Why is that so ****ing hard for everyone to understand?

This is true. But the "sith" continued the practices and ideals of the sith people.

I thought the original Sith were some people on a faraway planet who worshipped the Dark Jedi, that "came from the sky" as the Lords of the Sith.

FORCE PULL, GRIP, LIGHTNING, CUT-M-DOWN-SLASH...sorry, i don't get you guys, movie-makers suck, the movie ROCKS!!! :em321:

That's not balance. At all. Unless of course it's the chaos VS order thing.

Wouldn't it be funny if the "balance of the force" idea is just a big satire?

Obi: You were the chosen one to bring balance to the force?

Ani: Yeah, duh.

Obi: Why are you killing all the jedi?

Ani: Well, if we have like 2 sith and then only 2 jedi, it would be balanced, I guess.

Obi: Moron, don't you have any insight?

Ani: I am just doing what you told me to do. WTF.

It can be perceived as balance if lucas is saying that the universe should be totally "good". So Vader killing Palpy means that the universe is totally "good" (even though there must be a couple of odd sith out in the universe somewhere..)

Amen

"...the force is an energy field created by all living things..."

---------------
my theory:
the cycle of the Sith determines that only 2 sith can exist at any time:
One master teaches One apprentice.. then the apprentice kills the master..
the apprentice takes on an apprentice of his own.. and the cycle continues. forever.
^^ (and this doesn't cause any imbalance to the force)


BUT,


in the book Darth Sidious reveals, that his master was a guy named "Darth Plageus", who found a way to use his mental control of the force, to physically excite the midiclorians to create "life", from scratch.

and/or, to prolong existing "life" indefinitely, to prevent the onset of death, as we see done with Vader in the end

(so normally, the force is defined as 'an-energy-feild-created-by-life-itself'
..but when the Sith bend the will of the force far enough, towards their OWN will, then the force can be made to work in reverse..
and the (potential) result is, 'life-created-BY-the-force-itself' (instead of the other way around)

so basically, this guy Darth Plageus learned how to use the force in reverse. he used the technique on himself, and this meant eternal life (for him) --> he then taught the technique to his apprentice, palpatine --> and palpatine finally killed him in his sleep in order to take his place (LOL).

and palpatine has been alive for over 800 years. he's never allowed ANY apprentice to replace him. Ever. he's been using this technique to kepp himself immortal (causing a great drain on the force).




so basically : Sidious has broken the cycle of the Sith.
he's been using the force "in reverse", so to speak.
he's been using the force to create/sustain life, instead of the other way around.
and hence, the force is out of balance.

so when the prophecy says
..'Anakin was spawned BY the midichlorians to bring the force into balance'...
this just means anakin was spawned by the force to kill palpatine.
done, and done.

when palpatine dies, then the force goes back to normal, because his knowledge of how to use the force (in that particular way) is lost forever.


ie: when the "living force" spawned anakin ,
it was sort of defending itself (in a way) against palpatine's misuse of the force, to create/sustain physical life.
the force is supposed to be created BY "life" itself ; not the other way around.
(hence the imbalance)

I think Anikan turns to the dark side because people keep calling him "Ani."

How can you grow up to the the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, the Chosen One, with a nickname like "Ani."

Hey, Obi-wan survived long enough with the name Ben.

Cobalts explanation is the most convincing yet.

Spiler tags are no buffer to my interest. I've ruined more movies than I have fingers because of spoiler tags :-(

its kind of telling that sidious is 800 years old. and Yoda is ~900. we know that the jedi who instructed yoda were far more powerful in the force than the jedi of the day, and we know that the force itself was stronger back then. yoda is a living witness, to the decline in the force itself. he saw the beginings of the "imbalance in the force", because he was alive when it happened (IF it is indeed caused by palpatine keeping himself alive by misusing the force).

it all seems to fit.


-------------------
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another theory which I had subscribed to (before I read the book)...

the Jedi have been keeping the peace in the galaxy for 10000 years at this point, by using the force to further the "will of society" (right?)

so really .. they don't listen to the "will of the force" anymore.
not like the Jedi Of Old.
they listen to the "will" of the galactic senate (which is corrupt).

Along comes the Sith, who are using the force to further their own ambition.
They don't listen to the will of the force either, NOR the will of society:
they listen to their "own" freewill.
(which is corrupt).

so both sides are taking from the force, without giving very much back.
neither side enacts the 'will of the force' on the physical plane.



so what is the difference really, in terms of "balance"?



I thought it might be an enviromentalist.. thing.
perhaps the force is a metaphor for 'nature', and the Jedi are like the native americans.
(well.. they're supposed to be, anyways)

The native americans lived in balance with nature for thousands of years.
They didn't just "Take" from nature; they cared for it. They nurtured it.

But then society changed around them, and this in turn threw nature out of balance:
and by now, even the native americans have modernized their lifestyle.
(and we have mudslides in BC and wildfires in CA, as nature tries to find a new balance, with no real "caretaker" (so to speak)


So...
as an analogy to nature..
...the force was in balance for ten thousand years.
The Jedi administered the "will of the force",
and they cared for it (like the native americans) and they kept it strong.
And everyone was happy ( @ Bioware hehe)

But now , the Jedi are doing it wrong.
they are not acting as caretakers of a "living" Force (as Qui Gon referred to it);
they are relying too much on their own accumulated 'knowledge/science' instead,
and not enough on the "wisdom" of the living force. itself.



so its become a science to them now; its no longer a true religion.

for a long time now,
the Jedi council have been using the Force to enact the will of the senate.
(and NOT the "will of the force")

(like Obiwan IN EpII):
"We will do exactly as the council has instructed"

so the Force, itself, spawned Anakin.
And anakin is overwhelmed by the need to (both) follow his own 'feelings' AND disobey the will of the council (LOL)
(to follow the will of the force)

eventually he destroys every 'force user' in the galaxy, who is only using the force to enforce their own will.
including palpatine (and the jedi) and the only one left, at the end, is Luke.

and Luke was given a very unorthodox training, with limited "knowledge"
("already know you that which you need"),
and an emphasis on placing the force above your very self ("let go your conscious self and act on instinct").

so to Luke,
its really more of a religion, than a science.
he trusts the force, more than he trusts some jedi council. or even his own self.
(he has a certain "faith" in the will of the living force,
which the prequel-era jedi's did not have)

((and this faith leads to immortality ))

-----------

anyways.
maybe the Jedi are too much into themselves, and so are the Sith.
and neither side is following the will of the force.

and perhaps thats why they (both) needed to be destroyed in order to return the force to balance (?)

the Jedi weren't listening to the will of the force, they were listening to the will of the senate.
and the Sith weren't listening to the will of the force, they were listening to their own will.
so the Living Force, itself, spawned a war to eliminate them ALL (hehe)

so George is saying that our actions of "Using Up" nature..
(ie: indiscriminate cutting down of rainforests and/or heavy use of force-lightning. heh)
..should only be done in balance with nature itself. like the indians did it (like a religion)

we shouldn't just cut down a forest to feed a city OR to feed one man's greed.
(Jedi vs. SITH)

we should respect what nature is telling us and do THAT instead.

(ie: leave the forest alone. don't mess with the natural FIRE-cycle.
or you WILL end up with an infestation of "bark beetles" which will destroy EVERYTHING in its path)

(LOL)



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then I read the book. now I think the former theory is probably closer to what George had in mind

-= cheers =-