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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Should the U.S. convert to metric?
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Should the U.S. convert to metric?
2005-06-15, 12:23 AM #81
Quote:
Originally posted by Mort-Hog
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=1998-073A

The Mars Climate Orbiter in 1999 is the infamous example of the confusion caused by insistence on imperial units (specifically, force being measured in 'pound force' and not Newtons).


It really wasn't a question. Scientists and Engineers DON'T use Imperial, they use metric. Pick up science, pick up nature, ect. Scientific journals use metric. No American scientist uses imperial.
2005-06-15, 12:30 AM #82
Quote:
Originally posted by Emon
You'd rather use foot-pounds? What kind of crackbaby uses a foot-pound? It sounds like part of some stupid toe-magnet live forever crap.


I'd rather use pounds, as newtons are equatable to pounds (2.2 pounds iirc). Pascals are what you compare to foot-pounds. And I'd rather use PSI :D
D E A T H
2005-06-15, 2:43 AM #83
Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Apples to oranges kids.
makes a fruit salad.
Laughing at my spelling herts my feelings. Well laughing is fine actully, but posting about it is not.
2005-06-15, 3:28 AM #84
Quote:
Yup, looks like you've hit upon the sole advantage of the metric system. Now, how many milimetres is 1/3 of 10 centimetres again? And, quick, without using a ruler, how long is 10 centimetres?


Again, the whole "getting the feel" is merely because you're not used to the units. I have no problem in measuring out approximately 10 centimetres using my hands, nor do I have any problem measuring out approximately 10 metres in strides. I can easily visualise a metre or a centimetre. This is because I only ever use metric. However, I don't have any idea how long an 'inch' or a 'foot' or a 'yard', I'd have to work that out knowing that an inch is approximately 2.5 centimetres. Because I have the 'feel' for 2.5 centimetres, but I don't for an 'inch' or a 'foot' or a 'yard'.

The whole "units almost the size of body components" is an interesting tidbit of history, but I'm still not convinced that it actually makes measuring things any easier or that it's in any way a 'natural' measurement system.
If I have to measure 10 inches, am I going to lay down my thumb ten times? 10 thumb-rules is just as abstract as 10 centimetres, or 10 centimorts.

Quote:
However, take another common fraction: 1/3. Mile: 1760 feet. Kilometre: 333.333333 (repeating) metres. Or how about sixths? Mile: 880. Kilometre: 166.6666666666 etc.


There's nothing stopping you from using fractions in metric (or recurring decimals in imperial). That's just habit, in that you'll never be able to know if something is exactly one third of a mile or exactly one third of a metre, but fractions imply that you do.

Quote:
It really wasn't a question. Scientists and Engineers DON'T use Imperial, they use metric. Pick up science, pick up nature, ect. Scientific journals use metric. No American scientist uses imperial.


..Except in 1999, NASA fairly obviously did, with catastrophic consequences. They're not supposed to use imperial, no.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-15, 5:01 AM #85
The reason you Imperial users like Imperial more than Metric and think it has a better "feel" is solely because you're used to it. I'm in exactly the reverse position (though I can judge a foot and inch fairly accurately, since a ruler is about a foot long and also has inches and centimetres on, so I learned both. A mile and yard, on the other hand, mean nothing to me. MPH means exceptionally nothing, but KPH makes perfect sense).

Metric and Imperial are as arbitrary as each other. The sole difference is that metric is made up of a single unit for each thing, rather than half a dozen each made up of a different number of each other. This means that when building shelves we know exactly how much of 1.5 metres a 30 mm thick shelf is going to take. Do you know the same with inches and yards?

I'm sure you have lots of sensible reasons that the MM/DD/ YY dating system is superior to the rational, logical system everyone else uses, but you're wrong about that, too.

If you're such a fan of Imperial, why don't you use it for computers? Imagine you have an "inch" (a byte), a "foot" (12 bytes), a mile (however many feet that is) and a league (however many miles that is). So you have 50 leagues of space, and you want to install something that takes 6000 inches. What percentage of your drive is this?

Wookie: Is there any way in which someone does something better than the US? Since you're so adamant about your electoral and imperial systems, which are both pretty much universally derided, I suspect the answer is no...

Quote:

Ergonomics: since Imperial measurements were developed by people who actually used them every day (rather than some theoretical scientist with too much time on his hands), they tend to be designed to match up closely with the proportions of the human body. The human mind is designed to measure its environment in relation to the scale of its own body, rather than some arbitrary standard based on the circumference of the Earth. For instance, in a text book, what do artists usually use to give an idea of the scale for a diagram of a dinosaur? A human figure.


So what? Is the human body less arbitrary than the frequency of Cesium or the distance from the North Pole to Paris?

Quote:
The advantage Imperial has here is that measurements tend to require fewer units of memory. Imperial: 6'1" and a half -- three units ("a half" taking up only one "slot" of memory). Metric: 186.7 cm -- five units (the decimal taking up one unit). Fewer units = easier to remember, especially when you're a craftsman making something and trying to remember six different measurements at once.


That's ridiculous. It's only longer because you're converting from imperial to metric. I mean, 2 metres is easy to remember... but in Imperial it's 6.56160 feet! That's hugely difficult for tradesmen to remember!
2005-06-15, 5:31 AM #86
Quote:
Originally posted by Krig_the_Viking
@JKWhoSaysNi: How exactly does Metric have an advantage when dealing with non-integers? Is 144.5 inches more difficult to calculate with than 144.5 centimetres?


Because if you have one measurement in foot and one in inches you have to convert one of them to do the cacluation making it more complicated than it needs to be. With metric, just looking at the number you can convert it.


Quote:
The symbols for foot and inch aren't units anymore than the symbols for centimetre and milimetre are. That is to say, you could process them as mental units if you wanted ("185cm" rather than "185"), but they're not necessary for calculation. On the other hand, the decimal point is vital to calculation, since if you don't include it, you get the wrong number. You might be able to make a case for the foot symbol, using it as the division point between the feet and inches numbers ("six-foot-one").


Ok, I could say that 185cm has no symbols wheras 6'1" has one. The decimal point and the foot sybol are both seperators. You could say 1 metre 85 centimetres if you wanted. With 6'1", the foot symbol is vital to calculation. And if you want to do a calculation with the number you first need to convert it to a decimal number of feet or inches so why not just use metric?
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2005-06-15, 8:44 AM #87
Quote:
You'd rather use foot-pounds? What kind of crackbaby uses a foot-pound? It sounds like part of some stupid toe-magnet live forever crap.


My intro to civil engineering class used foot-pounds. It had an old stubborn guy for an instructor who would not use anything metric.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-06-15, 9:37 AM #88
Quote:
Originally posted by Dj Yoshi
WTF is a Newton?
A unit of force. :p
Catloaf, meet mouseloaf.
My music
2005-06-15, 10:36 AM #89
I propose that we all move to a new system based on the speed of light, the planck length, and the mass of an electron.
Stuff
2005-06-15, 1:20 PM #90
Quote:
Originally posted by Dj Yoshi
SI units suck. I found this out in physics.

I mean, pascals? Lumens? Newtons? WTF is a Newton?


One Newton is the force required to accelerate a mass of one kilogram through one metre per square second. Newton's second law of motion states that force is proportional to rate of change of momentum, the purpose of the unit 'Newton' is to make the constant of proportionality be 1, so that the law can be simplified to F = ma.

The Newton, Pascal and Lumen aren't SI units anyway. There are seven SI units:
- kilogram
- metre
- second
- ampere
- kelvin
- mole
- candela

There's also the radian and the steradian as dimensionless SI units.

The Newton is kg m s^−2
The Pascal is kg m^−1 s^−2
The Lumen is cd sr
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
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