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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Venus and Mars
Venus and Mars
2005-06-24, 3:36 PM #1
So I've recently been analyzing the differences between women and men. It particularly started when some girls at my school were ridiculing me for not knowing and memorizing my girlfriend's middle name, mother's name, our anniversary, and her birthday. I argued with them for a good part of 2 hours and continuously said that "There are far more important things to remember about a girl that show I care." They stubbornly used the statement "But *I* would be angry if *my* boyfriend didn't remember our anniversary." Which got me thinking:

Women are emotionally oriented, and think only about how something makes them feel. They thwart logic and only use it to back up their arguments when it does.

Men, on the other hand, think with their logic, and far less with how things make them feel. When they do think of how things make them feel, the combination of adrenalin and estrogen [Estrogen is the chemical for impulse based decisions; NOT testosterone. Testosterone actually controls growth and development] causes them to almost loose complete spectrum of the events around them, and thus spiral out of control.

I saw absolutely no use in any of the useless facts these girls were expecting me to know about my girlfriend of 6 months. They saw how that made them feel, and not how it should make them feel. Neither of us would budge because neither of us were right.

A friend of mine has been going out with a guy for a long time. She's also been taking an anti-depressant which suppresses her estrogen quite a bit. Her relationship with this guy has NEVER gone sour. Even after a big argument, logic kicks in and they both work it out easily and move on. They don't have free reign to see other people, but they do have the option of not seeing each other for periods of time to relax. They can push one another away, offend them, make critical but loving comments, and no offense is ever taken. They use logic to govern their relationship, not emotional reactions.

Where does this all stem from? Women must use instinct to care for their child FAR more than logic. A man's logic wouldn't keep a baby alive for long because there are certain things that cannot be defined by logic, but are instead defined by intuition, impulses, and emotions.

Men must hunt. Hunting requires a keen and well sharpened spear point and brain. Clear and rational thinking is REQUIRED for hunting or little will get done. Impulses kill a hunter.

So what's the fix? Acceptance. I accept that my girlfriend's reactions to something I say are only her emotional strife. My girlfriend understands the entire logic VS emotions thing [she helped me understand this theory] and thus can eventually be reasoned out of foolish arguments. She also accepts that my rationalization of human relations [Like I'll tell her to forget about something that someone else has said or done, yada yada, and she'll still be worried, or wonder how to approach the situation with the person.] is just my logical brain trying to understand human behavior.

Can one have both? I don't know. My friend I talked about seems to have both via artificial means. But in nature, is it possible? I wonder if that is a part of evolution: The uninvention of gender and emotions vs. logic.

Discuss [Not the birthdays and stuff. I am not going to argue with you people about that; They're also part of my philosophies of not attaching meaning to dates objects and events, but onto emotions, interactions, and simpler things] my theory!

JediKirby
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2005-06-24, 3:43 PM #2
Oh my god...you're Buddhist! *gives jEDIkIRBY a welcoming gift*.

Just kidding. Your views are true to you though, but I wouldn't put so much blame on the chemicals such as estrogen. It's just who we are, you know?

Men and Women are different in a special kinda way. But we must not forget that both sexes use both logic (left brained side) and intuition (right brianed side). But you're right in which one gender favors one side.

I would say that men have a logical response to things also. It's not because it's we're at the top of our game, hunters and keen, and can win anything with logic like Mr. Spock can...it's just that we grew up figuring out "Ah, this is how it works!"...namely, you might see baby boys more than girls tear off the head of a barbie doll.

Women, in my opinion, have a better artistic side for viewing things for what they are. And they use that view to see how things work with other things via indirect causes...probally why a little girl wouldn't tear a head off a doll, but rather make it play with another doll at a tea party...and then make both of them laugh because they enjoy it.

I would go deeper, but I know that most of these truths are not found in all women and men.
2005-06-24, 3:43 PM #3
Which type of antidepressant was it? This might turn out to be pretty powerful knowledge... instantly change any female from being emotional to being logical...
Stuff
2005-06-24, 3:49 PM #4
Quote:
Originally posted by kyle90
Which type of antidepressant was it? This might turn out to be pretty powerful knowledge... instantly change any female from being emotional to being logical...


That's what I was thinking.
2005-06-24, 4:02 PM #5
I'm not sure at all, I can ask her though.
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2005-06-24, 4:05 PM #6
girl + relationship = crazy

t'is fact.
<spe> maevie - proving dykes can't fly

<Dor> You're levelling up and gaining more polys!
2005-06-24, 4:06 PM #7
oh my god, Maeve posted on my thread... and didn't disagree with me!

*'splodes*

Sweetness!
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2005-06-24, 4:08 PM #8
kirby sux
<spe> maevie - proving dykes can't fly

<Dor> You're levelling up and gaining more polys!
2005-06-24, 4:09 PM #9
Quote:
Originally posted by maevie
kirby sux


tis true.

:P
2005-06-24, 4:09 PM #10
Quote:
Originally posted by maevie
girl + relationship = crazy

t'is fact.

So homosexuality is less stressful?
You will die alone.
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@%
guys I think my snail is stuck
2005-06-24, 4:19 PM #11
Quote:
Originally posted by maevie
kirby sux


GIVE ME BELLYBUTTON OR GIVE ME DEATH!

<3 Maeve
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2005-06-24, 4:21 PM #12
What Kirby said is basically true. It's not an absolute, by any means, but in general, that's the way it works. Understanding that men and women have these differences is important for any relationship to be successful in the long run.
Pissed Off?
2005-06-24, 4:25 PM #13
Certainly. I should note that it doesn't even need saying; This is a generalization, an accurate one, but is far from absolute. Some men are far more emotionally oriented, and lots of women use logic. I just think that, in the long run, women are far more emotional and men far more logical.

JediKirby
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ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2005-06-24, 4:32 PM #14
Definitely.
Pissed Off?
2005-06-24, 6:10 PM #15
I'm rather emotional and sensitive for a male. While I'm quite logical, I find that my logic is often over-ridden by my emotions, especially when it comes to feelings of sadness, etc.
2005-06-24, 6:13 PM #16
Quote:
Originally posted by Monkey_Man
So homosexuality is less stressful?


Homosexual relationships? Possibly. Being homosexual? No.
2005-06-24, 6:20 PM #17
Quote:
Originally posted by MentatMM
I'm rather emotional and sensitive for a male. While I'm quite logical, I find that my logic is often over-ridden by my emotions, especially when it comes to feelings of sadness, etc.


Don't worry. I consider myself equally balance of emotions and logic. When I'm arguing or debating, my logic immediatly takes over. And I usually win.

But I'm very emotional, especially when it comes to Women. And stuff.
2005-06-24, 7:38 PM #18
Yeah, girls can be majorly emotional about things, sometimes to the point where it hurts. Hell, most girls will tell you this :p
2005-06-24, 9:31 PM #19
But guys can be overly cold and logical about things too...
2005-06-24, 9:35 PM #20
And that's why neither is right.
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2005-06-25, 12:19 AM #21
That's why when you both figure that out, you end up complimenting each other really well rather than fighting about stuff.
Pissed Off?
2005-06-25, 3:46 PM #22
One bump to see if anyone's interested in actually discussing this.
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2005-06-25, 3:57 PM #23
I know my girlfriend's middle name, her mother's name and her birthday. Our anniversary is easy, as we got together on a Friday the 13th. ;)
2005-06-25, 5:18 PM #24
But do you know every little thing that makes her smile and laugh? Do you know what makes her angry, what morals she has, or her favorite dream she's ever had? What about her passions, he fears, her overwhelming sense of insignificance after seeing life from a new perspective?

These things mean far more than her middle name.
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2005-06-25, 5:21 PM #25
I hope you don't seriously believe that males are innately cunning, rational, logicmeisters and women are innately gushy, mushy, emotionbeasts.


We've already been through the 19th century dominated by exactly that line of thinking, male intellectuals justifying their superiority over women by explaining how females are naturally incapable of rational thought and unable to comprehend abstract concepts such as mathematics and science.

They too used the 'hunter-gatherer' type thinking (which is fairly amusing because human society was never like that) about "men's roles" and "women's roles" to justify the inequality.

They totally overlook that the very reason that humans survive at all is because we are not slaves to instinct, we are not robotically pre-programmed with how to respond to an environment. Early humans developed in a highly variable environment, so evolution had the choice of either making humans extremely specialised or giving humans the ability to respond to all sorts of different environments.
That is why human society is so hugely diverse, because there is nothing that is 'innately human'. And there is nothing that is 'innately male' or 'innately female' either.

Social constructs are far more significant than genetic or biological pre-disposition, and so it must be because otherwise humans would have never survived.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-25, 5:35 PM #26
He's saying that in a spectrum of logic on one side and emotion on the other, women will tend more to the emotion side while me will tend more to the other. That's not an absolute or saying that tending to one side puts you at the far end of the spectrum. Kirby is just looking at the inate instincts of males and females.

You're right, that we aren't slaves to our instincts. Humans adapt. Hence the change from the 19th century you are talking about, but that doesn't mean there aren't instincts that come into play either. There are differences between males and females, generally speaking. You can't really argue against that.
Pissed Off?
2005-06-25, 5:43 PM #27
Quote:
Originally posted by Avenger
He's saying that in a spectrum of logic on one side and emotion on the other, women will tend more to the emotion side while me will tend more to the other. That's not an absolute or saying that tending to one side puts you at the far end of the spectrum. Kirby is just looking at the inate instincts of males and females.

You're right, that we aren't slaves to our instincts. Humans adapt. Hence the change from the 19th century you are talking about, but that doesn't mean there aren't instincts that come into play either. There are differences between males and females, generally speaking. You can't really argue against that.


And instincts is the wrong word. Technically, you are born with only 2 instincts, the rest are behaviors you develop:

1. Babies will instinctively hold their breath underwater.

2. Babies will instinctively grasp something in their hands. (This is a throwback to the days when mothers would carry their childs on them all day)
2005-06-25, 5:44 PM #28
Quote:
Originally posted by Avenger
He's saying that in a spectrum of logic on one side and emotion on the other, women will tend more to the emotion side while me will tend more to the other. That's not an absolute or saying that tending to one side puts you at the far end of the spectrum. Kirby is just looking at the inate instincts of males and females.

You're right, that we aren't slaves to our instincts. Humans adapt. Hence the change from the 19th century you are talking about, but that doesn't mean there aren't instincts that come into play either. There are differences between males and females, generally speaking. You can't really argue against that.


Right, but those differences are not innate.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-25, 8:47 PM #29
no no no, Logic doesn't mean 'reason' I'm talking about logical thinking. This can be very irrational; I'm not saying men are smart.

My girlfriend said it best:

I'm a cold heartless ******* a lot of the time, and just because my logic is generally right, doesn't make something I do right.

She on the other hand doesn't always think about what could or couldn't happen if she were to do something, but acts on intuition and emotions. She ends up finding a common ground with things, but it often lacks any viable argument, and instead relies on the idea that "everyone's happy."

This doesn't mean that my cause and effect thinking is THE cause and effect, and it doesn't mean that her emotional thinking is lacking in reason, it's just that it's how we approach problem solving, and in general, exsistance overall.

JediKirby
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2005-06-26, 12:58 AM #30
The main difference between men and women is this. Acknowledge this, and you can be THE pimp of our century (and hey, *I* am having a good time already):

Women are addicted to emotion. They watch stupid **** like soaps that don't make sense to us, men, but are extremely addictive to women. 'Boy, I sure hope Ronald finds out about how Trisha really loves him, and how Kate just wants to be his partner because of the pact she made with Rex after she got dumped by Ronald's long-lost brother William, who died afterwards in a car accident on his safari-trip to Kenya.' Doesn't really make sense if you look at it logically, but stuff like that just opens up a whole world of emotion that they are sucked into. Soaps are to a woman what porn is to a man, but more intense.

Emotional relevance is a girl-drug.

You know those women who constantly get back to their husbands, even after getting hit, pushed of stairs, etc...? Now you know. *

(Well, that and the casino-effect, which I'm reluctant to post about here, cause not being manipulative is a virtue)

Looketh here, cause I have giventh thee the keys to the kingdom of heaventh.

*I do not endorse physical abuse. People who use it are messed up and should be put to trial.
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enshu
2005-06-26, 4:00 AM #31
Quote:
Originally posted by jEDIkIRBY
no no no, Logic doesn't mean 'reason' I'm talking about logical thinking. This can be very irrational; I'm not saying men are smart.

My girlfriend said it best:

I'm a cold heartless ******* a lot of the time, and just because my logic is generally right, doesn't make something I do right.

She on the other hand doesn't always think about what could or couldn't happen if she were to do something, but acts on intuition and emotions. She ends up finding a common ground with things, but it often lacks any viable argument, and instead relies on the idea that "everyone's happy."

This doesn't mean that my cause and effect thinking is THE cause and effect, and it doesn't mean that her emotional thinking is lacking in reason, it's just that it's how we approach problem solving, and in general, exsistance overall.

JediKirby


No, logical thinking cannot be irrational. It is only irrational if it is an unsound argument. 'Emotion' isn't necessarily irrational either, emotions are usually a 'short-cut' to arrive at a conclusion without consciously having to evaluate a line of thinking, but the conclusion that 'emotion' takes is often sound (if it wasn't then 'emotions' would be counterproductive and downright dangerous).

I don't really care what you think the differences between men and women are, this is a boring and thoroughly exhausted topic, but the point I was making is whatever differences you think there are they are not innate, they are not instinct and any sort of "man is the hunter!!" type thinking is flawed (and also downright incorrect).
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935

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