My dad and I were tearing down a room to rebuild it in the unfinished basement of our new house..And look what we uncovered after removing the drywall:



This is VERY illegal, and could kill someone. All that would need to happen is someone to put a nail into that wire and they could easily be killed. My dad nearly got shocked by that outlet which IS NOT SECURED AT ALL!


Now look at this, the same room:



WTF!?!? This is also quite illegal. Don't have enough wire? GET SOME THAT IS THE REQUIRED LENGTH! Don't go halfassed and create something stupid like that.

It's good to know that it seems the room was started after the house was built, so we assume the old homeowner did this himself... Urg.

Yay for Mickey Mouse home construction stuff!

I'd be prtty annoyed if I found a bunch of crap like that.

When our house was getting built we pretty much visited it enough during the process to know it was built pretty well.

i don't think a 120v/15a outlet could kill anyone, i've been jolted many times and it just stings. though it is incredibly dangerous for fire.

my electricity teacher used to check if the circuit breaker panel was on by putting a finger on the bus bar and another on the steel casing.

"oh, there's current here. so you probably messed up"

I swear he's not human.

So have I, but only while there was something else in the circuit. If you hold a live 120v wire in one hand, ground in the other, it's a pretty safe bet your heart will get owned. 1 amp is enough to kill you.

As for your house wiring, yeah, that's asinine. If I buy a house in the future I foresee myself redoing all the wiring, unless it's a modern house with good wiring. No electrical tape, no wire caps, no crimps - all soldered and heatshrunk. You're much less likely to have problems...

depends on your body resistance. if your hands are wet, if you hold the wire with a lot of scorn on your hands, the general humidity. the average shock is mostly 200-500 mA. sometimes even less than that. i'd have to dig into my work safety books again for the real stats, but you have to be -really- unlucky to get killed by an everyday power outlet.

there was one guy at school who was jolted by a 347v light outlet. it wasn't pretty

True, but my point is that you need to be really careful mucking around in unfused house wiring (like at the fuse box). A slip with a screwdriver and you'll get an arc bright enough to blind you for...quite some time, and the screwdriver in your hand will probably turn to slag.

There's nothing wrong with the setup in the second picture, assuming the wires were actually all connected when you found them.

I heard somewhere 15mA is enough to kill you...I could very well be wrong there, or have what I heard mixed up.

Yeah. A shock from 120 would have to go thorough your heart to kill you.

Nah, 15 mA is nothing. I've built circuits that draw around (and more than) 15 mA at 5V DC and you can't even feel it really. That's at low voltages though. At higher voltages it's enough to cause some pain.

50+ mA can potentially cause ventricular fibrillation though at high enough voltages.

The pots at the aluminum plant I work at draw ~1300 V DC and about 338 kA. The whole plant has the same yearly consumption as Québec city.

Needless to say, I got a course on how not to electrocute myself.

That's way more than enough to own you no matter the situation, heh.

They use something like 7 A at 2000 V for the initial shock of electric chairs.

Apparently the body's resistance is weakest around the ears too, so yeah, don't go getting shocked in the ears...

Don't butcher welder's terms.



As far as a quick arc blinding you for an extended time.. no.

Maybe for a few hours. I've been flash blinded before.. it lasts a few hours, but burns for weeks.

You SERIOUSLY need to stare at an arc for more than 30 seconds for it to blind you for quite some time... and thats sorta impossible, because you close your eyes as soon as it happens.


Also, slag is the word used to describe the scrungy looking build up on fresh welds from the flux. In otherwords.. the paper + whatever other crap they put on the electrode, or if you have fluxcore mig... or.. alot of things damnit.

Actually, in ideal conditions (wearing the obligatory safety equipment in my sector, in perfect condition, low ambient humidity), you'd have a few seconds to pry someone who is being electrocuted.

However, in just about every other possible scenario, your heart would probably just explode. :p IIRC, the "standard" resistance of the human body is about 1000 ohms (someone could correct me on this if I am wrong).

I = V/R = 1300/1000 = 1.3 amps, more than enough to kill you. Fried.

With the proper protection (and perfect conditions), this resistance shoots up to about 100 kiloohms.

I = V/R = 1300/100000 = 0.13 amps, which, IIRC, stops your breathing and causes severe muscle contractions. Death is likely, but not necessarily the only outcome.

Jointing wires in a box is legal, but the box needs to be closed, and the wires need to have at least 6 inches each, with no more than half a inch of the cable insulation left. the wire there is like 4 inches with 3 inches of cable insulation. wtf.

it's not really the danger of shock, it's the fire that's dangerous, loose wiring like that can generate heat on the house insulation or the 2x4's holding the house, and after a while, chances are the live wire and the neutral wire will cross each other and then you have a nice little spark. and we all know what sparks do...

theres a certain range of A thats really dangerous to human hearts but A alot larger or smaller seem to be not as deadly.

By "quite some time" I just meant more than after staring into a 200 watt lightbulb. And yeah, I know what slag is with welding or brazing, but I just used it loosely. I think the dictionary also defines it as more than just the welding term. Wait, no it doesn't, nevermind, wrong use of the word.

Darn right... try and take our words.

This is what I have against the do-it-yourself philosophy. Stuff like that should be done by a licensed and bonded electrician, not by some stupid f*** with a weekend's worth of time on his hands.

At least that's fairly modern wiring with good insulation. I had to fix a power outlet at my place, and in my walls I found the old 1950's-era s***ty wiring with crumbling cloth wrapping insulation (and no real ground wire). It's safe enough if I leave it in place and undisturbed, but eventually it should be replaced.

Yeah, my understanding of electricity was that it was not some much how much voltage, but how much amperage. Like the metal static making balls, forgot what they call em, but they produce voltage in the millions, but at extremely low amperage ratings, I believe.

As far as killing you, the biggest danger would be where the electricity travelled. If you were using both hands and they each touch the right wires, then it'll go straight through your heart. I remember that there is less of a danger if you're using only one hand, in which case it would ground to your feet. Not to say that it is still not dangerous...

A Van DeGraff machine?

Slag is also the term used in metal casting for any molten/partially molten metal (usually scrap). I believe it's also used for the excess molten buffer used in forge welding.

Haha, owned.

I've been shocked by a outlet already.

Note to self: When you are 6 years old, and you cannot get something unplugged from the wall, ASK FOR THE PARENTS TO HELP. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PRY IT OUT WITH A SCREWDRIVER.

thats just bull****

You understand I was just ribbing the guy for no reason, right?

The thing with adding an outlet is that you couldn't possibly attach it to a stud without ripping the wall apart, right? Adding a box behind the outlet, though, can be done without tearing up the wall, although you have to use one of those wierd blue plastic ones.

The wiring in my house would make you guys cringe. The insulation is falling apart (the old cloth-covered type), there are no utility boxes anywhere in the house (except with a few of the newer things), none of the wires are run in pairs, and the ceiling fan/light in my living room is NOT on any breaker.

you can add a box -and- an outlet with minimal wall damage. you just have to be an electrician and know a few tricks of the trade. no one said it was easy though.

But I'm not giving away my secrets :p

My uncle used to tell my cousins and I to stick a fork in the power outlet.

When I was a kid, I used to remove power cords with my mouth. One day, the unpleasantness happened. That's why now, I... *spasm*