Q2 of next year..

I'm waiting for it...eagerly.

Same.

I can't recall ever buying a game at its 'new' ($50) price..but I just might go for it this time..heh..have a year to shove nickels in a jar :p

I don't really know enough about it to look forward to it.

I was severely disappointed by the original, so I don't see why I wouldn't be again.

!?

I had been waiting for more than 3 years for it, only to be given that.

What didn't you like about it? I had NWN, then bought NWN Platinum..I liked the expansions more than the (boring) original campaign..but I've also heard that the downloadable expansions from Bioware are excellent as well.

Unless the makers suddenly release reliable toolsets instead of wizards and wands, I'm out. I figured I'd be able to set DCs for doors to be knocked down, build expansive castles, place little details into my map, control the world around the campeigner, maybe even mix it up a bit with some stealth missions. I also figured, since it didn't really have to render any physics, that the game would LOOk appealing too.

Instead I got a sad excuse for poorly done 3d graphics in a 2d playing field with NO invironment interaction, NO built in DM capabilities, a VERY bad menu and control sceam, unimaginative monsters who lacked AI, crap DM control, and worst of all, half the rules of DND completelly ignored [saving throws? Scripted DCs? Physical Skills?] and a VERY shoddy on-the-spot item insertion system. No, NWN felt like a 4 year old game when it initially came out, and just because a handful of people make a few models for it every once in a while, doesn't mean it's core feel isn't crap.

I literally get a headache playing the game because the controls and the menus are so BAD.

If they were to fix this, and perhaps give me a bigger template to play with, and maybe some more physics and movement options, I'd feel like I'm not playing some hack and slash crap like Baulder's Gate.

JediKirby

Yeah. The OC isn't all that. What makes NWN great is what you can do with it. There are countless modules made for it. There have been some excellent stuff made by the community. The toolset and NWScript really allow you to do pretty much anything. Not to mention that it can easily incorporate user-made content through hak packs.

Wait until burrie sees this thread.

Yes, you can do anything. But basically, you have to sort of agree that something is currently happening, rather than seeing it happen, or number crunching it to happen. I mean, yes, you can roll a random die, but you CAN'T make that have an effect on the game, you can only move players or change their stats. That irks me greatly. It almost seems to me that they really half-assed the entire game and just released a completelly community driven game. That isn't bad, but it isn't AT ALL what I was promised. I think I remember them saying something about it being DND. This isn't DND, it's hack and slash with a DM.

Yeah, I'm expecting burrie to actually hate me now. :-P

Burrie and me both!

If I understand correctly what you are trying to say, this is not actually true. If I script a DC in the game that the player must make and the player fails the DC, I can store that result in either the player's or module's local variables. And whenever the current module requires to look up this variable, the script/conversation can look this up and determine how to proceed in the plot according to said DC roll.

So yes, a die roll can affect the module play. Was this present in the OC? A little. But, you really have to look past the OC, it was a shortcoming. It really didn't bring out the potential of the engine.

I'm talking dynamically. Scripting is good and all for setting up the world, but if a player suddenly turns down a path I never expected, there's little to no dynamic lifeboat to save you. You pretty much have to end the adventure, or use a different place that's as close to their chosen path as possible, which usually feels rushed.

Burrie would argue that a 'good dm' could pre-eptivelly anticipate, or at least have backup places available. I like more control on the spot, because I'm a GREAT improv DM. I also like to allow my players to experience the same rich quality I script no matter WHAT they decide to do.

JediKirby

It does as well as it can, for a computer game. You see, you got NWN thinking that it'd be an amazing revolutionary game using all the latest technology. Realize it was released in 2002. You know what else was released then? Warcraft 3. Their graphics are about on par with each other, the technology is really quite spot on, and back then such things were AMAZING. You're also thinking it could give you complete control over every aspect. Do you know how INSANELY difficult that would be to do to a person? You'd have control over every polygon in the scene, true, and what the characters did, true, but think about how many levels of menus and submenus you'd have to plow through just to get something done. The amount of time taken it would be ludicrous. It works a lot more easily in PnP because you don't have to worry so much about every little detail. There have to be some hindrances somewhere, and you seem to think the few ones they have are so very hindering when they're not. You just have to learn how to work around them.

But really, you just don't know what you're talking about. I'll let burrie be the one to explain it to you, even though you won't listen to him either because you always HAVE to be right.

Ach, Neverwinter Nights 2... meh, I'll see what the result'll be.

Mr. Pot, I presume?

In either case, it could be just like it is now with those options AVAILABLE for users. And it honestly wouldn't be THAT difficult. I don't know why it's so hard to allow me to rotate a placed item on the fly. Or why can't I simply select a door and give it a DC to knock down? Or if the player wants to break a table, why can't I delete a placed item and replace it with a broken table? These are all SIMPLE, yet not available.

JediKirby

Actually...

DMFI and CEP, standard equipment.

Use NWN interface to bash the door. If you wish to go with a DC, decide one for the door. Use DMFI Dicebag to let the players make a roll. If they make it, DM Wand on door, delete object. Placeables -> Custom -> <dinna know at the top of my head> -> Fallen door. Spawn.

(latter one can be done for detail)

Use DM Wand on table. Delete object. Placeables -> Custom -> Interior -> Furniture -> Broken Table. Spawn.

Burrie got it.

I already said, that's very shoddy. Yes, it works, but I've still got to get my hands dirty. It works fine for doors, but I need much wider control. I'd like to just set a DC requirement and set a trigger and leave it at that. Instead, I've got to sit down and do it by hand which is pretty monotonous and makes the atmosphere seem forced. I don't know, it's hard to explain, but it just doesn't seem like the most proficient way to do things.

Actually, you typed it, but I'll let it slide. (unless you talk outloud when typing) :p

Any case, just to throw in my few cents... if one is expecting NWN to be just as easy to work with as PnP, get a different game. I'd suggest OpenRPG or something, but certainly not NWN. To compare a NWN DMed game with a PnP game is like comparing a, uh, LARP with a PnP game. Various things are the same, most things are completely different.

Improvising with Neverwinter Nights is rather difficult, very difficult. Definately not for the faint of heart. When I host a game, I tend to try and have an entire area ready to toy with. For example, awhile ago, I had the player infiltrate a little town filled with monsters, and before I started that particular session, I had no idea at all what I was going to do with it. I had constructed a little village with all sorts of random things thrown in. 15 minutes before the game was about to start, I qu ickly constructed a little dungeon underneath a building and threw in a few random elements(a large gap, a chest on the other side, a translucent ghost-like minotaur that I could quickly limbo and spawn, a gong here and there) in case of an emergency.

In the end, it was bloody fun. I had a little notepad handy to jot a few things down, and just went with it. Decided that there were two criminal factions whom were trying to get control of the town and just went with it. The dungeon had a use halfway through, and the players got the information that they needed. And to this day, the players still don't completely believe that it was an improvised session.

Of course, Neverwinter Nights tends to work very well with how I tend to plan my games, and used to plan them with Pen and Paper. I simply set up the situations, and let the players have fun with it. As another example, the baron of a small valley had been replaced with a doppleganger and the party had found the original baron. I had no idea on what they were going to do with it. In the last session, with clever use of the invisible spell, the party managed to sneak into the castle and swap the fake baron with the true baron. Was a fun little sneaking mission as a change of pace.

As a few might know, I'm also hosting a little game specifically for Massassians(although a friend o' Wolfy might join soon). As I don't have enough time to start building modules myself, I luckily managed to find a long string of modules to work with, and they've all been built exactly how I like them. Entire plots of land with no fake borders, just a general plotline and various situations for the party to toy with. And ways for me to incorporate the party's histories if I want.

The graphics and tilesets... frankly, I'm not much of a graphic-person to begin with, I suppose, I like what I see. Tilesets may be repetive, but placeables can certainly change the general atmosphere, as well as other different tricks. Give the underdark tileset a skybox, and you have a beautiful mountain area. Give the desert different lightning, and you get an adventure underwater(from what I've heard, see Pirates of the Sword Coast for that). The ease of the tilesets allow me, someone who can hardly model a room to save his life, to create the areas I need to tell a story, that's all I need. And the ease of creating armors, weapons and the like allow me to let the players customise their equipment as well.

(and just to throw in a link, here is a page that one of the players in my group has created who collects screenshots from my campaign)

The DM Client... well, perhaps difficult to master, but can easily get second nature. I suppose that, coupled with the DMFI wands, it has a learning curve that might seem too steep for some.

Simply put, Neverwinter Nights has downsides, it has limitations and things that might be just plum awful. But frankly, I really don't care all too much about it. It's not Dungeons and Dragons, it's not Pen and Paper, it's Neverwinter Nights. To expect it to be anything else is to be courting dissapointment.


Oh, and hate you for having a different opinion on a computer game? That's certainly an odd view on life.

DJ Yoshi: Take notes on the above poster. Put at the top: Disagreeing with someone without being an *******.

I guess we just differ on the game then, and maybe there'll one day be a game that's better suited to my likings? Hopefully.

JediKirby

NEVER! THERE WILL NEVER BE A PERFECT GAME! err...yeah.

Not trying to start another debate off here, Kirby, but did you call Baldur's Gate hack and slash? If those games are defined as hack and slash then I'd have to say pretty much any RPG with a sword in it is as well.

As for NWN2, I actually haven't seen or heard much about it, so...I guess you could say I'm not particularly excited about it :p Maybe that'll change closer to the release or if I read up on it, but if it's more of the same then I'd probably stick with NWN.

I LOVED Neverwinter Nights and so I very very very eagerly await its sequel, and I'm hoping the editor tools will be as fun to work with. Perhaps not enough freedom for some, but I had great fun with it.

Btw Burrie, you wanted to start an NWN campaign but you never emailed me!!! DO IT NOW!! Btw, Burrie (again) is it still worth it at all to edit for that game??

heheh, i have two campaigns fully mapped, i just need to complete the coding and skinning. (con't from above post which for some reason I felt the urge to hit submit reply button :(:()


then again.. i could've edited it... :3

Actually, it has already been underway for some time now.


Depends, really, on what you want. There's still quite a nice community out there who's interested in the campaigns. Bioware is still actively patching and working on the game, as well as releasing some free new content(latest patch added new music from the previous premium modules, and the next patch'll add a few new things from Pirates of the Sword Coast as well).

Of course, if you're building for a campaign or anything to host and DM, it's always worth it. Find a good party at a community(be it Massassi or neverwinterconnections) and just have quite a bit o' fun with it.

I missed it meh