Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Windows Vista is set to halt OGL in its tracks..
Windows Vista is set to halt OGL in its tracks..
2005-08-06, 10:37 AM #1
http://www.beyond3d.com/#news22408

Quote:
Evidently, as it stands now, the only provision for OpenGL Microsoft are making under Windows Vista is for it to be wrapped on top of DirectX. Windows Vista will provide two core 3D API specifications, DirectX9.L (formerly WGF1.0), which the main 3D GUI will utilise, and the yet to be finalised DirectX10 (WGF2.0), however at present it seems that MS will be layering OpenGL not on the more advanced DX10 specification, but the core DX9.L, pinning the specification to OpenGL1.4 and removing any IHV extension provisions.

With such a model in place there are several implications for OpenGL. First, its widely expected that the performance of OpenGL will be noticeably reduced by such an implementation (we may remember 3dfx were long since pilloried for not providing a native OpenGL ICD for a long time, instead laying it over their own Glide API). Pinning the specification to OpenGL1.4 and removing extensions will have implications for applications that are using shaders under OpenGL, which of course includes both workstation applications and games. Also, running OpenGL applications in windowed mode will require you to turn off the 3D Vista GUI, dropping the interface back to the Windows 2000 compatibility interface.


All I have to say is, WHY?!

WHY could they not have implented OpenGL 2.0?

WHY did they decide that?

What possible advantages could using an older version of OGL have over a newer, faster version, with more features? Rolling Eyes

Then whats worse, it seems you got to go through a hassle just to run a OGL game...

Ugh.
Got a permanent feather in my cap;
Got a stretch to my stride;
a stroll to my step;
2005-08-06, 10:45 AM #2
Dude...it's Microsoft...
2005-08-06, 11:09 AM #3
It's not in Microsoft's best interests to fully support a competing technology.
2005-08-06, 1:24 PM #4
I'm having difficulty understand what the exact benefits of Vista are over XP.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2005-08-06, 1:27 PM #5
The fact that MS will make more money because the ignorant populace will buy it in droves.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-08-06, 5:03 PM #6
Originally posted by Wolfy:
I'm having difficulty understand what the exact benefits of Vista are over XP.


well, according to people who have beta 1, it's faster.

I'm buying it simply because I may as well keep up-to-date and because it'll annoy so many of you.
Detty. Professional Expert.
Flickr Twitter
2005-08-06, 5:58 PM #7
I have yet to hear anything really positive about Vista. Even though bad news travels fadter than good news, you'd think there would be something good by now.
"Flowers and a landscape were the only attractions here. And so, as there was no good reason for coming, nobody came."
2005-08-06, 6:01 PM #8
the fact that the GUI is in the 3D pipeline is a major plus, that's what i'm buying it for.
Detty. Professional Expert.
Flickr Twitter
2005-08-06, 6:48 PM #9
this is not a big deal
See this post: http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=337097&whichpage=4�
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2005-08-06, 9:31 PM #10
I can't read that page right now oS, but I'm guessing that this whole deal is only for the default drivers...once you install your video card drivers it won't matter.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2005-08-06, 10:26 PM #11
Something like that. The issue is that Aero Glass is disabled when an OpenGL ICD is used, so the user is effectively given the choice of using the Microsoft OpenGL wrapper or losing the composited desktop.
2005-08-07, 3:04 AM #12
Windows Vista sounds weird to me, since I speak Latvian. In Latvian Vista translates to Chicken!
2005-08-07, 3:52 AM #13
Originally posted by Detty:
well, according to people who have beta 1, it's faster.

I'm buying it simply because I may as well keep up-to-date and because it'll annoy so many of you.


If I was keeping up to date with windows I'd get it too. If I had a machine worth upgrading that is.
2005-08-07, 3:54 AM #14
Madre dios! Es el Vista diablo!
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-08-07, 4:06 AM #15
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
2005-08-07, 4:15 AM #16
Originally posted by oSiRiS:
this is not a big deal
See this post: http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=337097&whichpage=4�
I can understand the technical reasons for doing so, however - and here's the big however that everybody should be pissed off about: Why doesn't the implementation/wrapper target the new implementation of OpenGL? It's pretty obvious this is a case of trying to dominate the world. I'm not joking here. Most people runs Windows for games - either developers will start releasing more games for other platforms (not likely), or they'll switch to using DirectX/XNA exclusively (especially since maintaining multiple renderers at the same time is growing increasingly cost-prohibitive).

This means games will be easier to port for Windows and Xbox (XNA), and rather costly to port to Mac/Linux and PS3 (OpenGL/OpenGL ES), creating a rather large schism. They're very obviously balancing the combined market power of Win32 and Xbox against everything else in the world.

It won't affect you yet, but this is going to bite you in the *** in 5 or 6 years.
2005-08-07, 5:23 AM #17
What I find funny is Windows used OpenGL quite a lot back in the old days. Anyone remember the old screensavers that came with windows that used OpenGL rendering?
2005-08-07, 5:39 AM #18
Like I said...
[QUOTE=Cool Matty]What I find funny is Windows used OpenGL quite a lot back in the old days. Anyone remember the old screensavers that came with windows that used OpenGL rendering?[/QUOTE]
Embrace.

Fahrenheit? Extend.

Dropping all OpenGL support, working Fahrenheit code into D3DX? Extinguish.
2005-08-07, 5:40 AM #19
[QUOTE=Cool Matty]What I find funny is Windows used OpenGL quite a lot back in the old days. Anyone remember the old screensavers that came with windows that used OpenGL rendering?[/QUOTE]


PFFFT no.

STARFIELD FTW.
2005-08-07, 9:43 AM #20
So you can't run an OpenGL windowed app at the same time as a Direct3D (Aero) app on the same screen. How is that different from now.

Seriously, any time you guys get ANYTHING that could be turned negative about Vista, you turn it into OMGMICROSOFTSUXBAD.

It's getting old, your going to end up moving to Vista eventually, quit whining.
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
2005-08-07, 3:54 PM #21
Originally posted by NoESC:
So you can't run an OpenGL windowed app at the same time as a Direct3D (Aero) app on the same screen. How is that different from now.
Uh... you can't use the new UI with OpenGL *installed*. This means you'll have to choose between playing, say, OpenGL games (like Quake, JO/JA, Doom 3) and having a copy of Longhorn that doesn't have its only redeemable feature disabled. I refuse to call it the V word.
2005-08-07, 9:07 PM #22
Quote:
This has absolutely no implications for fullscreen games on single monitor setups


Quoted from the site brad linked too.

I have Beta 1 loaded now, When I run any games, or play a video using hardware acceleration, it turns off the aeroglass ui. When I close it, the UI comes back. Seriously, not a big deal.
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT

↑ Up to the top!