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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Dark Forces and Duke 3D engines -- how similar are they?
Dark Forces and Duke 3D engines -- how similar are they?
2005-08-13, 3:14 PM #1
Because here's my thoughts. -- Duke 3D is open source now. I wonder how difficult it would be to add basic DF support so that we could play DF in that classic element, allow for all the addon levels to be played, and add a new multiplayer element called "DarkMatch" or something to replace DukeMatch.
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

Tazz
2005-08-13, 3:50 PM #2
okay..
i have no clue what your talking about.

ANGLISH PLZ!


Sol futureposted.
This is not the sig you are looking for. Move along.
2005-08-13, 3:50 PM #3
A Bunch
This is not the sig you are looking for. Move along.
2005-08-13, 4:46 PM #4
? What does DF have/do that the BUILD engine cannot? :confused:
Got a permanent feather in my cap;
Got a stretch to my stride;
a stroll to my step;
2005-08-13, 4:49 PM #5
I have not seen the Duke 3D engine or its code. But I'm going to go along with what Sol mentioned and say that not a whole lot of modification is necessary. Probably just have to make appropriate models and animations. Perhaps there might be some code modification.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2005-08-13, 8:51 PM #6
Duke supports ramps, DF doesn't (not a problem, of course).

As for features DF has that Duke doesn't, DF has basic 3do support (not the same as the JK ones) but I don't recall 3d models in Duke that weren't part of the level architecture.

DF has support for "objectives"... I'm not sure exactly how much the low and hi ids of Duke will support... as far as I can remember, you either punched the button, or killed a boss.

DF also has more modular cutscene design, I believe, in that it is made up of elements. Duke's are more like traditional media files.

AKPiggott might be the one to ask; he edited Duke3d many years back.
2005-08-13, 9:01 PM #7
First time game engines I've ever edited were Dark Forces and Duke Nukem 3D so I have a bit of knowledge about how each game works. I even had some experience with messing with Duke3d's con language although I didn't really get far since the game is pretty limit on what you could do. All I can remember coding was a freezing that made things explode instead of freezing and a shrink ray that fired cannon balls that acted like gas grenades.
The cake is a lie... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!
2005-08-13, 11:12 PM #8
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
I have not seen the Duke 3D engine or its code.



So, get eyes!

I always thought JEDI was closer to Doom's engine rather than BUILD... or perhaps that's just because I managed to run BUILD in high resolutions even back then. Bleh.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2005-08-13, 11:14 PM #9
Do I smell 'Jedi 2'?...or is that just pie? Either way, I want some.
Think while it's still legal.
2005-08-13, 11:47 PM #10
Quote:
? What does DF have/do that the BUILD engine cannot?


Basic 3D objects, "fake" bridges, lateral moving/rotation of level architecture, INF-scripting. That's what I can rememeber.

BTW, back in the day we did DF->Duke converter as a part of WDFUSE. You could actually play samothing resembling multiplayer DF... JED can also import Dark Forces levels so you can do something similar in JK.

Speaking of which - how much interest would there be in multiplayer version of Dark Forces? Because I thought to do a project like that.
2005-08-13, 11:48 PM #11
It would be quite ace project, Bender man.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2005-08-14, 1:36 AM #12
Originally posted by Bender:
"fake" bridges, lateral moving/rotation of level architecture


Actually the Build engine can do those two. "Fake" bridges could be done using sprites that can align with perspective (not sure what the proper term for that is. Its kinda like how a decal works except it can float in the air). lateral moving/rotation of architecture was done a LOT in duke 3d. Things like trains, moving platforms, and sliding doors were possible in the engine.
The cake is a lie... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!
2005-08-14, 11:36 AM #13
Quote:
Things like trains, moving platforms, and sliding doors were possible in the engine.


O, yeah, I blanked out on that.
2005-08-14, 12:29 PM #14
[QUOTE=Matthew Pate]AKPiggott might be the one to ask; he edited Duke3d many years back.[/QUOTE]

I never edited Dark Forces though (wish I did instead of Duke now). I imagine the engines were pretty similar. Doom was strikingly smilar to Duke, in fact one of Duke Nukem's official editing tools was a converter that turns Doom maps into ones for Duke. There were also a lot of mods that carried Doom content over to Duke, so I imagine it must've been quite straightforward.

I once made a Stormtrooper Rifle mod for Duke Nukem. I basically printscreened it from Dark Forces and put it into the texture set.
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2005-08-15, 1:21 AM #15
OK, everyone, I'm sorry that I recommended Ant's help when it's clear that he's useless.
2005-08-15, 4:49 AM #16
You better be, you moron.
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http://twitter.com/ourmatetone
2005-08-15, 5:52 AM #17
This project seems like alot of work for no reason. I think you ppl should find something more constructive to focus your energy on then doing some stupid conversion between crappy decade old game engines.
2005-08-15, 6:23 AM #18
*checks clock*

Took you that long for a standard "old = crappy" answer?
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2005-08-15, 11:52 AM #19
Originally posted by Bender:
BTW, back in the day we did DF->Duke converter as a part of WDFUSE. You could actually play samothing resembling multiplayer DF... JED can also import Dark Forces levels so you can do something similar in JK.

Speaking of which - how much interest would there be in multiplayer version of Dark Forces? Because I thought to do a project like that.


Honestly, I'd be all over that, especially if it were win-based.
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

Tazz
2005-08-15, 1:58 PM #20
Originally posted by Bender:
Speaking of which - how much interest would there be in multiplayer version of Dark Forces? Because I thought to do a project like that.

That would be really, really, cool.
2005-08-15, 2:16 PM #21
It would, but a project aimed at just that already flunked. They aimed to transform Outlaw (built on Dark Forces' Jedi engine and which had multiplayer) into Dark Forces MP.

2005-08-17, 9:05 AM #22
I was thinking, since there is a a DF->Duke3D converter, why not try to give it a shot? I may just do this. I only wish someone knew how to code objectives into the Duke engine.
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

Tazz
2005-08-17, 9:12 AM #23
I think it would be much more productive to port Dark Forces into Jedi Knight.
2005-08-17, 9:53 AM #24
Originally posted by AKPiggott:
Doom was strikingly smilar to Duke, in fact one of Duke Nukem's official editing tools was a converter that turns Doom maps into ones for Duke. There were also a lot of mods that carried Doom content over to Duke, so I imagine it must've been quite straightforward..


It's obvious you never edited Dark Forces then... Dark Forces' engine, Jedi, was not based off of Doom (although rumors point to LA reverse engineering the Doom engine to figure out how it worked so they could code the Jedi engine).

So Tazz, your DOOM to Duke 3D converter would not work, because Doom and Dark Forces use very different file formats (and many of the internal engine pieces are different).

2005-08-17, 12:48 PM #25
Originally posted by The_Mega_ZZTer:
It's obvious you never edited Dark Forces then...


Originally posted by AKPiggott:
I never edited Dark Forces though (wish I did instead of Duke now).


???
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http://twitter.com/ourmatetone
2005-08-17, 3:51 PM #26
Heh, you'd think the team that is doing the DF TC for JA would also be doing MP too, no?
The cake is a lie... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!
2005-08-17, 10:25 PM #27
Quote:
Honestly, I'd be all over that, especially if it were win-based.


Yep, but with portability in mind.

Quote:
Heh, you'd think the team that is doing the DF TC for JA would also be doing MP too, no?


Probably. JO by itself appears pretty close too. But there's just something about old DF look...

I recall when ZDoom cam out we played it on the net like crazy - perhaps more than the original.

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