Honestly, I don't know exactly what's going on in the Gazaa [/spelling?] strip, but what I do know, is that people are being FORCED out of their homes based on their RELIGION. And that our president supports it because it's a "PEACEFUL" resolve to a war.

I wouldn't care if people were crying for being forced out of their homes because of an ecenomical recession, or maybe even a decleration of religious grounds that NO ONE could live on, and the people would be relocated. But being kicked out of what you beieve is your own land, having your soldiers and loved ones UNBURRIED, and being told that this is an avoidance of VIOLENCE is simply lacking in humanity.

Since when have we become so BIG HEADED that we think we know what God or whatever controlls us has in store, or what he believes? Don't you think, since we're sort of on our own [god doesn't make his presence known] that we should form some sort of fellow humanity, as that's as likelly what god wants anyway? Shouldn't our goal be to not hold onto the birthplace of christ for rights of religion, but instead praise EACHOTHER'S belief in [if you haven't noticed] the same god, only different teachings?

I could never possibly force someone out of their homeland and religiously important place of worship simply because I felt I had more right to that land. I simply couldn't. I'm a pacifist at heart, and believe that there's always an alternative to war. But my alternative to war is HUMANITY not necessity of inhumanity.

If there is a god, I'm sure he thinks humans heads have become swelled up with his love and sacrifice of his son for them, and have forgotten the entire purpose of their time on earth. And if there isn't a god, we're really ****ing things up for ourselves.

JediKirby

Jewish terrorists tried to force the British out of Israel, a land of a once large Palestinian pop., in the early 20th century. They thought they had more right to the land than the Brits or Palestinians had. They, and a portion of settlers today, think it's their land as said by God.

It makes perfect sense what's happening there. For a (somewhat) final solution it's either that or one faction annihilates the other. And in our current world a genocide doesn't buy you too many friends, so that's a lousy option.

The US mass media mostly highlights individualism and individualistic values, so it might sometimes be hard to remember that for the survival or wellbeing of a nation it sometimes may require sacrificing something, and often the heaviest burden of the sacrifice affects only a part of the nation, like those people forced out of their houses. These are things the nation must then face and sort out afterwards.

That's Giza :p

Oh sorry, my bad.

Jews are both a religion and an ethnicity. Authorities are concerned with the ethnicity right now, and I think that the Palestinians got the SHAFT with the declaration of an Israeli state, so the Gaza strip is at least some consolation.

Plus, young Yasser Arafat was a badass. <.<

The original post was: I prefer the Gaza with pyramids.

Which has now been futureposted.

Three times and more!

Yeah, it's not like the United Nations gave them the land or anything. Silly Jews.

Ouch. It doesn't sound like you've read into this very much. Israel keeps doing this because it has fanatics come in and blow them selves up in their county every few weeks. Every time they relax the border some idiot goes and ruins again. Israel would be able to stop this if there weren't any suicide bombers.


BTW, Jews don't belive that Christ has come yet.

omg NO WAY!

I don’t know anything about the most recent iteration, but the problem as I see it, is that both the nation of Israel and the ethnic state of Palestine have legitimate claims over the land, and unfortunately, neither side really wants to mix or concede to the other (politicians may be willing to from time to time, but this is one of those situations where it is simply down to popular opinion and no number of cease-fire documents will change anything).

Israel just so happens to be significantly more developed politically than Palestine. Meanwhile Palestine is waging a rather efficient guerilla war on the people of Israel. As lassev said, genocide is not really an option, so the Israel army is trying it’s best to fight back within the lines of political acceptability, but against a group such as the Palestinians, there are extreme limits. I cannot say either group is really in the wrong here, I just wish we could see peace.

The other interesting fact is that if Israel committed itself to the extermination of the Palestinian state, it would be quick work, but instead it works about like this:

Palestinians bow up a mall in a Israeli area.
Israeli army drives bulldozers through Palestinian settlement.
Palestinians fire rockets at Israeli neighborhoods.
Israeli army holds sting operation on high ranking Palestinian leaders.
Both sides agree to a cease fire.
Palestinian and Israeli people get into a fight and a riot breaks out, guns are drawn, people die.
REPEAT

Hmm... They are trying to do it right now with the pullout. Chances are there will be fewer suicide bombers as a result of this. At least it's an idea worth believing unless proven otherwise by the future.

Its a land for peace trade. The Palestinians want their land back, and Israel is giving them some. What can Israel do in this situation? The only alternative is more terrorism and war.

zomg

But um, how is this relevant again? :p

on the news it said the jews had no right to be there in the first place, it was illegal or something.

I for one never ever act biased towards the jews and say awww poor jews let them be, evil palestines etc. They're both at fault in war, just like everyone.

I for one welcome the removal of jews from the Gaza strip, one less thing to cause the daily wars.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

If I understand the situation right, the Gaza Strip is one of a number of Palestinian territories that Israel captured by force during the Six Day War of the 1960s. The population before the capture was (I think) almost entirely Palestinian, and continues to be so. The Israelis who are being required to move out now are settlers who've moved in after 1967 and have lived in their own seperate communities.

The original post sounded like the poster thought the Israelis were being forced to move out as some act of religious persecution. You do realize that the Gaza Strip is under the control of Israel, and it's the Israeli government that's requiring its own Jewish citizens to move out, right? And unless I'm drastically mistaken, the conflict over Gaza has nothing to do with religious sites: Jerusalem is on the edge of the West Bank, which is in the east of the country, while Gaza is in the west, on the border with Egypt.

Then again, I'm nowhere near as well informed about this as I pretend to be, so don't take my word for anything.

Why can't Jews live there!? That's what I'm trying to say. I don't care what the politics are, I'm talking about how there's no humanity left in the world anymore.

You people take for granted the parts of your sentances where you say "Peace INSTEAD of violence." The fact that the 2 groups can't coexsist is what bothers me. The fact that everyone's so mixed up in the hating that they don't even know what they're fighting for anymore.

I'm talking about humanity as a whole, not just the Gaza. WHY can't there be a general fight for humanity, not against eachother? Grr, I don't get it.

I am trying to remember more about the situation under which Israel captured Gaza and the West Bank…

If I recall, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the Sinai Peninsula were all captured during a counter-offensive during Israel’s conflict with Egypt/Other middle eastern nations who I am forgetting.

The UN forced Israel to relinquish control of the Sinai Peninsula and return it to Egypt…

As for the humanity… Deep down inside, lets face it, humans are not very humane… Intellectually we want peace, but so many people are so miserable in this world that the only way they can quell their feelings of discontent is by channeling it into hatred for one another. Then give those people an easy target against which to channel their hate, and it becomes very difficult to get them to stop.

The fighting between these two groups has been going on since before Jesus, Since Moses in fact, if I remember right, I'm a little rusty on my Bible studies. The main point is that there is no way that they will ever stop fighting, both groups believe that the land is theirs, given to them by God, and noone else has a right to it.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about, Kirby? First of all, Jews can live there - that's not the issue (there are Arab Jews, you know). The issue is the presence of Israeli settlers in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, which were formerly Arab lands until they were annexed by Israel in the 1967 war with Egypt and Jordan.

These aren't people who have lived in Gaza for generations - they're Israeli settlers who moved in after '67. The ones who go peacefully are being compensated by the Israeli government with as much as $400,000. Getting the settlers out and freeing up land for Palestinians to move out of refugee camps is an essential step in creating a Palestinian state and ending terrorist attacks on Israel. The only people who are really up in arms about this are hardline, right-wing Orthodox Jews, who are a minority even in Israel. It's rather strange to see someone so worked up about what's arguably the first development in this whole trainwreck of a peace process that's supported by both Israelis and Palestinians.

And jesus, stop being so sanctimonious! Of all the things going on in the world, this is one of the last I'd pick to argue that we've betrayed our humanity

PS: Israeli != Jew

Israel is one of the many examples I use to show that there was never any place that England went that they didn't screw up. Sorry, they might be nice, but they're nice in their own country. America too.

As far as I'm concerned the Palestinians got treated like the Catholics in Ireland, and it was never fair.

What we need is like... an alien attack... to make us forget about our hatred for each other and work together. In fact, if I remember correctly, Independence Day had a scene in which Israelis and Palestinians were working together.

God is just waiting around... until he has had enough of our bickerring and stuff... then Armageddon (IS NOT AN ASTEROID, ITS THE DAY WHEN ALL THOSE WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ENTER THE PERIOD OF 1000 YEARS PERISH, AND THE MANY WHO WILL BE RESERECTED SHALL COME ALIVE TO LEARN THE TRUTH) comes. There is an evil force at work, that is driving the humanity out of us, and filling our hearts with evil and hatred, so that we do not obey god, or follow his teachings, and all other beliefs are his undeserved and wrongful self adoration, we will call this force Satan... once known as Lucipher, the angel of light, now he is the angel of darkness by his own greed... there is no other truth, you cannot see air, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist...

^ wtf?

Oh god.

He does that sometimes, it's best to just ignore it.

Ender's Game!
minus all the afterwards wars...

Please don't respond to this thread again until you figure out what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be an elitist or anything. Just please, read beyond the headlines.

We call that minimoding. And being an *******.

My intentions in this thread weren't to analyse the situation there; I don't really care. In the end, it's people against people, and I just don't get it. My question is WHY it seems people have to be against eachother. Are we all just so competative? Or is it that we can't find the right words to say what our opinions are? I don't get it.

The great thing is that there is more peace in the region now than there ever has been. The sad thing is that the hate the Palastinens have for the Jews is not going to disappear very easily.

Because the Israelis were never supposed to be there in the first place. It was never "their" land. It was always Palestinian land that Israel was occupying, and it's only right that they get it back.

It is Zionism that has created this whole absurd problem.

Now, I agree that after World War 2, the Jews probably did need their own state. But why Palestine? If this was strictly political, then they would accept land from Germany or even Japan. The Russians even offered them a chunk of Russia that they could have. Establish a Jewish state there, and it'd all be fine. But no, they demanded Palestine. Why?

Because Palestine is "Jewish land". Palestine was "given to the Jews by God". Now that is religious persecution.

The Jews had no claim to Palestine, other than "God". Before Israel, as a British protectorate, Muslims and Jews had lived in Palestine peacefully. There was not any religious violence or tension, until the Zionists demanded Palestine as their "God-given land".

It is unfortunate that Israel was established where it is, but it cannot exactly be un-established. But it can be limited to the borders that it was promised, and that is only fair.

A great deal of Palestinians lived in poverty, in camps or clearly temporary quarters. They were led by former terrorists and no doubt every day they were taught how jews took their land and their possibilities for a good life. And add to that the wonderful support and good advice they received from various fundamental foreign terrorist groups.

Now, I don't really see any other logical outcome than what we have been seeing for years...

This is not true. The Palestinian people arrived at Palestine during the First Caliphate in the 7th Century. During the times of Moses, the Jews fought non-Arab pagan Semitic people, who have long since assimilated into other groups or have been wiped out. There were a small community of Jews in Palestine before the 20th Century, either those who escaped the Diaspora, or returned once the Romans were no longer there to keep them out. The certainly did not have any major political influence, and lived as Dhimmi under the Arab rulers.

As for the current situation, I don't know what to think. The Jews are there, whether they should be or not, and it's too late to change that. There are so many different views in the Jewish world that practically every Jew has their own view. It's always been this way, too. You may know that my father is Jewish, and I tried it out, but decided there were way too many problems I didn't want to get involved in.

What, you mean post? :p



Did you even read Sine's post?