In Government class, we started a classroom discussion on abortion. Most of the people, including myself, were pro-life, but there were a few pro-choice in the room as well. It got me thinking, and it's been bothering me all day. Isn't the "pro-choice" reasoning just an overall weak argument? It completely boggles my mind that a person can ask another "Are you against abortion?" and the other could reply "I'm pro-choice." WTF? Aren't constitutional rights and the abortion of babies two completely different issues, yet they're intertwined everytime the issue is brought up? Shouldn't a person's free agency and constitutional rights stay out of an argument like that, yet it remains a viable viewpoint? I agree that "pro-death" doesn't sound as good as "pro-choice", but being "pro-choice" (who here doesn't support choice anyway? How stupid.) seems like an excuse to make a touchy subject seem tyranic and communistic if it was banned. Oh no, if you are pro-life you are a communist! [/sarcasm]

It's not a straight answer if you side with pro-choice... you never say if you do support abortion, you just say that the woman has the right to choose. That's like saying "Do you support stealing?" and replying "I'm all for free choice for all people." What? Does anyone else consider that argument weak, lame, and rather nonsensical? Is this just some sly idea by the NAF to make an unaccepting issue sound viable and right? Is there something I'm missing, or does this make sense to you?

I'm pro-choice.

I don't want people to get abortions, but if another person wants to get an abortion, for whatever reason (Birth control fails, rape, whatever), I don't think the government has the right to tell the person they can't do that, especially when it's based on religious or moral convicitions.

I hate buzzwords like pro-choice.

I'm all for abortion. Why? Because people choose whether they want children or not.

If you're against abortion you should be against contraception too. You're preventing life.

"Pro-life" is just as dumb sounding as "pro-choice." They're both phrases designed to make their side of the issue sound like the obviously correct one. Like "pro-peace" and "pro-freedom."

More abortion = less population. For one, you kill the baby. Secondly, no fear of pregnancy effecting you = more sex, which = more STD's.

I'm one of those who is pro-life. But another part of me says pro-death (You can call it choice if it makes you feel better), especially in special cases of rape and etc.

/yeah

Well, most of the time it's just a little cluster of cells so it doesn't really count as a baby. :p

i consider myself pro-choice.

i believe a woman has the right to terminate her pregnancy. in some cases its the only intelligent and responsible thing to do, especially in the cases of teens. If they know they are not ready, emotionally, financially, and such, it is an intelligent decision. i do not believe however that abortion should be used as a form of birth control.

birth control should be taught in more places and more thoroughly than the subject is taught. most of what i learned of birth control was through independant research to aid me in my decision to have sex with my then girlfriend. if schools were more focused on birth control rather than abstinance, there would be less teen pregnancies. its been said many a time before. if you tell a teenage not to do something its going to be practically the first thing they do next. teaching abstinance should not be abandoned as i agree it is the only 100% way not to get pregnant or any STD's(or whatever they're calling them these days) but teaching birth control and condom use will seriously decrease teen pregancies.

in other cases it is the ONLY morally right thing to do (i.e. rape, child molestation and things of that nature.

and on that note, while like i say i am pro-choice, were it a child of mine, no matter how financially unprepared i am, i would keep it. thats my choice.

While I have issues against abortion from a moral standpoint, I do believe it should be lawful, because I would prefer that women have the procedure done by a certified doctor rather than by somebody claiming to be able to do it, as would happen were abortion made illegal. I guess I don't really fall into either one of the extremes.

Contraception prevents conception. Abortion occurs after conception, which many pro-lifers consider the start of life.

People should be able to choose if they want an abortion or not. It's their life, their soul, their choice.

the woman should be allowed control of her own body and allowed the ability to detach this horrid little baby thing.

I don't see any reason to make it illigal, that way women would just go to armchair doctors and backstreet abortion clinics and that would be much worse.

I should be Emporer of all the land and execute those who do not abide by my rules.

This debate does not affect me as I am (due to a genetic condition) incapable of getting pregnant.

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Godamn this thread. I don't have enough time to post in it right now, but damn.

I'll take Maddox's idea: I'm against abortion, but for killing babies.

Actually, what I find funny is that the people who are against abortion are those who are for the death penalty (flame me all you want for making generalizations, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm correct)... I tried to figure out the logic in that once, but my head asploded.

Like Kyle, I am pro-regressive.

Join the Regressive party!

i'm pro choice because if someone does or does not want to have an abortion, it's none of my business. for me it really isn't a constitutional thing, it's a none of my business thing. :/

Anyone who would equate communism with pro-life is an idiot. First of all, if you mean that someone is a communist in a derogatory sense, you are perhaps likely referring to Soviet Socialism. Abortion and the killing of "unhealthy" babies was regularly practiced.

You clearly have no clue what a pro-choice person is. Pro-choice people aren't people that think all babies should die. They are people who believe a woman should have the choice to chose between abortion and having a baby. That's it! You can be morally against abortion but still be legally for the choice to have it.

When the government interferes with how a woman conducts herself, that's when the question comes up on whither it's constitutional or not. It is a constitutional question.

It's a debate between legalizing and illegalizing. It's an arguement about law. Of course it's going to involve the constitution and how laws will affect a persons free will.

Evidently those that want to illegalize abortion, thus no longer making it a choice.

Calling a person a communist because they are against the option of abortion is stupid. However doesn't "pro-life" imply that if you disagree you must be anti-life? Because after all that makes so much more sense than "pro-choice" even though the entire debate is about whither a woman should have a choice or not. No, "pro-life" is in no way an attempt to get an emotional rise out of people.

Yes it is. It's short hand for "keep your nose in your own business."

Because that's what the argument is. For women to have the right to choose. That's it.

Horrible analogy. Stealing and abortion(if it were illegal) are two different kinds of crime. Stealing is a crime against person/society while abortion is a crime against morality.

Yes, a completely unacceptable stance on an issue, even though it was ruled in favor of by the Supreme Court and no one has yet to get the political power to overturn the decision. And political power comes from the people.

Personally I wish there was more talk about the morons who can't use a damn condom than bringing another life into this. Like so many other things, we've gotten so tied up into the abortion issue to forget that pro-life or pro-choice aren't the solutions!

The solution has to be at the level of the two morons who screw and think they can get an abortion and then go back to screwing again. It's not right. My sister had a friend in high school who had at least two abortions by the time she would've gotten out of high school, but I believe she dropped out anyways. It's people like that who should be punished.

But how does the government discern between the careless/stupid and those that just made an innocent mistake or the condom broke?

Although Kieran Horn wrote such a novel that I only read half of it, the first half already contained the reason why pro-choice is a correct term: If abortion was made illegal, there would be no choice. No sane person really thinks all of those who support the right would have all embryos aborted and no babies born.

Expanding on that. The only way an abortionist can be correctly labelled "anti-life" or "pro-death" is if they wanted to make abortion mandatory for a certain group of the population(ie all unmarried women).

There's a difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion.

Pro-choice means that regardless of your own personal feelings and moral values on the subject you feel it's the parent's choice to decide (or however is qualified to make the decision). i.e. you don't agree with the notion of thrusting your own morals and way of life on other people.

Pro-abortion means that you're morally in favour of abortion, i.e. if the circumstances justify abortion you'll support it completely.

Whelly is correct, saying you're pro-choice doesn't necessarily dictate where you stand on abortion itself.

I'm both.

I'm pro-mandatory abortions.

I'm pro-choice on pretty much everything but abortion.

Yes it does Detty. The issue is "Should abortion be legal?" Whither you are saying "I don't like it, but it's their choice" or "I think it should be and I'd recommend it" you are saying "Yes." If you want to distill the "Yes" down further, you can do that, but it's completely unnecessary since both are still under "choice" and have not crossed into "requirement." Both say "Abortion should be legal." How is that not stating where you stand on the issue?

[QUOTE=Kieran Horn]Expanding on that. The only way an abortionist can be correctly labelled "anti-life" or "pro-death" is if they wanted to make abortion mandatory for a certain group of the population(ie all unmarried women).[/QUOTE]

No. First, "choice" can refer to many things other than abortion. Second, "pro-abortion" (the examples you gave are as non-specific as "pro-choice") is correct in the same sense that "pro-gun" and "pro-war" are correct. A "pro-gun" person doesn't necessarily believe that everyone needs a gun, but he believes others should have the right to choose whether they will own a gun. Likewise with those who are "pro-war," and by extension, with those who are "pro-abortion."

Saying you are in favour of abortion being legal DOES NOT equate to saying you are morally in favour of abortion.

That's what i'm saying, end of. You said exactly the same thing in one of your posts, why are you disagreeing with me?

I'm anti-stupidity.

We aren't talking about choice in other things. We are talking about choice in abortion. "Pro-choice" has come to mean in favor of legalizing abortion not only in discussions about abortion but in pretty much any other realm of conversation too. When someone says they are pro-choice, you aren't going to think "Oh, they are for people having the choice to own guns." And my examples are as specific as pro-choice and pro-guns are since I already clearly outlined what they would need to be referring to in order to be correct, given the discussion we are talking about.

As for the rest of the post: Alright. I conceed "pro-abortion" is short hand for "In favor of legalizing abortion". Still sounds to me like it's more for or against a process instead of an act, but it does flow smoother than "pro-using abortion".

I was disagreeing with both you and Whelly saying that pro-choice does not give how you stand on the issue. No where have I said "pro-choice" doesn't show how you stand on an issue. I've said the exact opposite.
edit: Now I know where I was getting mixed up. I was talking strictly legal(the Yes/No) and you were talking moral(the Why). We could get in a debate about the difference and importance of each part if you wanted. :p


edit: I'm off for a little bit. I'll come back later and look at the responses.

Pro - life all the way
If you don't want a baby use a f*cking condom(duh)
If you are raped give the baby to adoption.

And who are you to tell people what to do? You don't have that authority.

Well I was making a suggestion. Sorry I was kinda mad for a second...

The issue here is "Is abortion murder?" If it's not, there no way it could be considered wrong. Saying that you are pro-choise if it is murder is the same thing as saying pro-murder.

Abortion is a crime against the potential for intelligence. I just can't accept that as logical reasoning.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

Pro Choice. Do I even have to explain?

And I laugh how people try to justify their stances...it's just a belief. You can try and justify it to me any way you want, it's not going to change my mind, because this belief is based more on what I think than logic (that sounds bad, but it makes sense in my mind ;|). There's logic to both sides of the argument, it just depends on which side appeals to you more.

Anyway, I'm just not going to click on this thread anymore. I just can't deal with it right now.