"The way the music died"... - Discussion Forum - The Massassi Temple Forums Archive

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"The way the music died"...

2004-05-28, 5:23 AM #1

GBK

Posts: 10,562

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/interviews/crosby.html

Quote:

So, when people say it's a "perfect storm" moment for the music business -- consolidation of radio, consolidation of ownership, downloading piracy -- you know, all of it, do you care?

Yes, I care. Do I think they deserve to go in the tank, the big companies? Absolutely. They deserve what's going to happen to them completely. It's their own stupidity that's brought them to this point. And their own greed, and their own lack of taste.

I see plenty of future for music. Music is magic. It's been mankind's magic since the first caveman danced around his fire going "Ugga bugga, hugga bugga!" That was music, and he was happy. And we're still doing it, and it makes us happy. It will transcend; it will go on.

Discuss...

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.
:wq

And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.

2004-05-28, 5:33 AM #2

Ubuu

forums' token black man

Posts: 1,670

..care to put in some input before to demand a discussion?

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

2004-05-28, 5:59 AM #3

GBK

Posts: 10,562

Quote:

Originally posted by Ubuu:
..care to put in some input before to demand a discussion?

I dont need to, the article speaks for itself. Also, no matter what position I take, someone here will flame my pants off.

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.
:wq

And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.

2004-05-28, 6:01 AM #4

Martyn

The Daddy

Posts: 9,001

Your pants are full of holes, smell of badger vomit, and I just don't like them. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

2004-05-28, 6:19 AM #5

DogSRoOL

wtf is a catloaf?a

Posts: 6,227

/lights GBK's pants on fire.

Cat loaf, meet mouseloaf.
My music

2004-05-28, 7:31 AM #6

Martyn

The Daddy

Posts: 9,001

A good read (now I finally got around to it), especially interesting to hear that artists are excited about iTunes - I hadn't really thought much about it, but when you look at it from the point that the artists aren't getting shafted from every direction it does make sense.

The only thing iTunes needs to do is somehow top things like kazaa, soulsearch, BitTorrent and whatnot. Oh, and start working on this side of the pond too - because I'm interested.

[http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

2004-05-28, 7:55 AM #7

Schming

It doesn't like you either.

Posts: 5,553

Thanks for the article I really liked it.

I agree. I think the courts should effectively shut down Kazaa and all those others. I used to download too, then I started focusing on my career as a musician and realized how much P2P hurt the artist. People like me, who download sampler songs and then buy the CD are the minority in downloaders and it's just bad.

Anyways, I'm hoping the big companies will fall. Like Crosby said, it's their fault for not changing with the times. The smaller indie labels are getting more and more of a following, most of it can be attributed to kids thinking it's cool to go against the system, but in the end, the indie labels are the ones that are passionate about good music.

My pants are brown and corduroyish.

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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album Between the Dim and the Dark available now

"Those ****ing amateurs... You left your dog, you idiots!"

2004-05-28, 7:58 AM #8

Avenger

Positive!

Posts: 19,146

I also watched most of Frontline last night . It was pretty good. They talked to people on both sides of the fence while they talked about the process Velvet Revolver and some other artist, don't remeber her name, went through to get their albums out.

David Crosby was great because he talked about how the music industry is manufacturing bands and forcing them down the public's throat and that the public is tired of it, hence poor record sales.

They also talked with the manager of Outkast who said pretty much the same thing. The quality of music today is hurting the industry more than anything else.

If it airs again, I encourage everyone to watch it.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Pissed Off?

2004-05-28, 7:58 AM #9

Seb

what

Posts: 2,277

Quote:

Now record companies are run by lawyers and accountants. The shift from the one to the other was definitely related to when the takes started to get big. Somebody [in] a forensic accounting job could probably establish the exact moment at which it reached the level that brought in the sharks.

This pretty much tells what's wrong these days with music. It's not run by people that know what music is, it's run by people that try to know what music is worth. Music is worth nothing in terms of cash, and everything in terms of emotionnal value. American Pop Music is basically Cashing in on pre-made emotions and values, in order to create very strict and conform trends, so the same lawyers can cash in on clothes sales and whatnot.

Quote:

Look at it this way. A couple of years ago, somewhere between a fourth and a third of the record business was owned by a whiskey company, who shall remain nameless, but were notably inept at running a record company. And they sold it to a French water company, who shall also remain nameless, but knew even less. Now, those guys haven't a clue! [laughter] They haven't a clue. And they don't care about having a clue. They are trying to run it as if they're selling widgets, plastic-wrapped widgets that they can sell more of. And they want easily definable, easily accessible, easily creatable, controllable product that has a built-in die-out, so that they can create some more

Yep, that's what the RIAA and other big labels like Century Media is. A clueless owner selling to another clueless owner. and so on. even if your music has the most insane virtuoso lines ever, chances are you'll be rejected. Why? because it's not trendy to be skillfull it seems, and also, because skillfull people usually have much more logic and knowledge about their work than eager angsty kids who play (Example) a few power chords while whining about something crawling in their skin or something like that. The fact that they're eager makes them easy to trick, and the clueless owners -want- people easy to trick, because then they can get rid of them whenever they want without worries of any consequences for them.

Quote:

The people in those bands can't write, play, or sing. They make them sound good with pro-tools, because if they sing out of tune, they can just say, "Oh, punch a button. Put it in tune." Which is very frustrating to people like me, who spent, you know, 30, 40 years learning how to sing in tune in the first place. It is partly their own, you know, greed and, and lack of taste, but it's also partly a condition that's endemic in the country.

Yup, the modern music industry is a complete ****ing insult to stand-alone musicians and composers. You're in the posse or you're not. No questions asked.

Quote:

That's not a good thing, because it means that anybody that looks good in a well-shot video is suddenly at the top, whereas hugely talented people, who are great musicians, can barely get arrested. I mean, they can barely get any notice at all. And that's not a good thing. That's had a terribly bad effect on the music business, and on music.

Yup Yup, if you have a few zits or a little chubby but can (example) play insane arpeggios on a guitar that only a few guitar players have ever achieved, You'll never break through as much as pretty-boy next door who's as dumb as a brick.

Quote:

Crosby's rule number one, axiom: the bigger a company gets, the less it gives a damn about you.

I don't have anything to add to this statement, just felt like pointing it out because it's so ****ing true.

Quote:

See, that's the wrong thing. They're out there looking for a clone of whatever's at the top. Norah Jones is a breath of fresh air. Norah Jones can sing and play. She's got some talent. I was totally ecstatic that that girl got noticed, because she's wonderful. Her hit, another aberration. You won't see it again, because she's not what they want -- too deep. She's a real human being; she has real stuff to talk about. They don't want her. You won't see her. She won't stick around; she won't have a second hit. Won't happen.

Exactly, they don't want the real thing, they want an artists that mimics the real thing, and that can be controlled at a whim.

There's so much more in this article I see so far, like iTunes probably killing the whole industry business model (like crosby best said it, "no packaging, no shipping, You upload, they download, you get a buck for the song, but if the song is very popular, well that's a nice little profit just for you.). One thing I hope is that iTunes might turn into a sort of mp3.com, where you pay a small fee in order to upload your material, or to open an account, and with that fee you have the possibility of distributing your music everywhere. hell, you could even give away a single or two for free? Why? because it would be your music, you wouldn't have to ask anyone permission to give away music, becuase you're the owner, and then the -real- reason why many artists make music would be a lot more obvious. gigs. How many of you would pay (example) 30$ to register at iTunes to have a chance to play in front of thousands of persons who came to see -you- and hear -your- music?

Of course, this idea would need lots and lots of tweaking and cleaning up, given the amount of crap that was on mp3.com and similar services, but it's still a very promising concept.

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I'm walking towards dead end, and I'm walking all alone. Two steps ago I passed insanity - Aleksi Laiho

"NAILFACE" - spe