I have been thinking a lot lately. There is a long story (and an argument) behind this question that I don't feel particularly compelled to elaborate on right now, but it has all been boiled down to a single question:

Would you rather be safe, or free?


If you choose safe, you don't have to worry about where your next meal may come from. You don't have to worry if you can make the mortgage payment. You have the security of a steady income, a steady job with good pay and benefits, but a strinct, standardized schedule that you cannot deviate from. You must work five days a week, 8 hours a day, for the next 45 years of your life.

If you choose free, you have the option of creating your own schedule (if any), the ability to to what you choose, when you choose, and the freedom and not having a boss or a strict schedule to adhere to. However, there is a high risk of not having enough resources to live a decent life. The possibility is there that you could do well, but also that you may fail. You might not have the money to pay for your mortgage, your unexpected doctor bills, or buy enough gasoline to get you where you need to be, but you're free.


My girlfriend and I argued this for some time. She chose safe; I chose free, and the two are not compatible.

She currently works in a large bank, sitting behind a computer handling money transfers, for six hours a day, 5 days a week. She earns a good wage for a person of her age, experience, and education. It's a good job. This is acceptable for a college student trying to get moving in life, but she wants to make it her life. She has quite a bit of free income each month, but has little opportunity to spend it, because of her busy work and school schedule. I don't like it.

I work as a swing trader on the stock exchange. I make decent money, when I do make money. Some days I make a lot, some days a little, some none, and some I lose. I don't have to go anywhere. If I don't want to trade one day, and choose to go the beach isntead, I can. No schedule, but no security. I have the possibility of good money and a free shcedule, but also the possiblility of failure. She doesn't like it.

I choose freedom because I would rather spend my life wandering the earth with nothing, in the cold, than spend it locked away in a cage made of cheap foam and cloth, having my retinas burned out by a computer monitor.

There is no right or wrong answer, and it is a very tough choice.

What would choose? Safety, or freedom?

Please post your choice, what events or thought lead you to this chouce, what your current situation is, and what you plan on doing to get you to your desired outcome.

Freedom. I'm freaking sick of living by a schedule, and it's not even that safe.

Btw, this is a good thread.

"He who would trade freedom for security deserves neither."

Okay, yeah, I probably butchered the quote, and it's way out of context, but it applies. Freedom all the way.

I'd say freedom, because it's more interesting. Safety is good, but it'd be repetitive and boring.

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty
nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

Also, please bear in mind that your decision does not affect only you; it also weighs on those you love. Your family (children, wife) will be also affected by what choice you make. Your children might not have warm winter clothes if you're free, but they may not have much of a father (or mother) if you're safe.

Yeah, that's the quote I was looking for.

I think I love you. I've argued with many of my (very conservative) family members about their support of Bush in that he's taking our liberties away for a supposed safety and security of our freedoms. Though that's not quite on-topic, I think it fits rather well.

PS: I have been informed if this turns into a political debate, much baseball bat sodomy will commence.

Safe and free, of course.

there's so much i could say on that, but i choose free. music forces me to do that currently, and it's not about to stop, and i -hate- being at the same place with the same people doing the same thing all the time. it drives me nuts, i need to do many things, or just do nothing, depending on the days. I've always managed to get by doing this for a good 3 years now, and now some rough times are coming in, but what the hell, I'm still free!

I've found my new sig.


I would rather be free above all else.

free.

I'm not made for real life living, i cant constantly get up at 7 everyday and go to work till 5.

It would kill my soul.

I would rather live free, with little money, and feel more alive, than being yet another zombie in the 9-5 commercial sector.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

I would like Freedom, however, you can't say that you really want to be free and will be free, you need money, you need a home to stay warm... You need to have water and food. And most food and water these days isn't eatable from the nature...

Maybe you should get a job you really like! It would be also feel very free, when you have a job you don't hate to do. You could take it as being free...

i would have to choose safe. maybe thats just the way i was raised, but not thinking about your future and preparing for it is just kinda irresponsible of yourself.
for example, my father has been working the same job as a machine technicion for 27 years. its a steady job, every two weeks there is always a check. sure its not the most exciting job in the world, but its a responsible job. he has worked those 27 years to make a living for himself and his family. we have a nice house, nice cars, myself and my brother both in college. if i had to choose between being responsible for myself and a family and choosing when and if i wanted to work. it would be the easiest choice of my life. i would choose responsibility.

Free, cause I like it when things are shaken up a bit.

Free.

It's obvious that your gf is thinking down the road and whether or not her potential husband could support her and a family.
You gotta go the way you want, and if the two of you can't find a suitable compromise on this issue, you're going to have nothing but trouble later on.

Btw, I have to go safe. I need to know that I'll be able to make next months house payment and so on. Although, free is very attractive...

Safe, but working at something I love to do.

It's easy to say you choose to be free, but I would be willing to bet that most people never will be.

Most of the people who said "free" will still end up working in a structured, stable, strict environment. Very few of us who claimed to choose freedom will ever experience it.

The real question is this: What are you going to do to get yourself to your desired outcome?

Myself, I know I will be free. Whatever it takes. Give me liberty or give me death. I already quit a good, steady, stable, structured job to pursue a risky venture. I don't know if I will earn money tomorrow or not. I know I sure as hell didn't make any today. But I like it. I enjoy it. It excites me knowing that the future is uncertain. It makes me try harder, it makes me work for what I want, and work hard. I could never have known what I am capable of if I kept doing the same thing the same way all the time. I learn new things about myself, and what I can do if I try. I haven't had a job or income for two months. I exhausted all my savings into my trade account, and my school tuition. At the beginning of last month, the combined total for my banks accounts was $147.32, and no more income to come in. I spent over $5,000 last month, money that I didn't plan on spending, but I managed to get it and use it, without having to be give my labor and time for it. It was scary for a while, but it worked out. It might not work out as well next time, but I don't know, and that's what motivates me to try, and try hard. I know that I will do whatever it takes to make it. When push comes to shove, I'll be the one shoving.

When I choose to be free, I don't choose not to work. I am not afraid of work. I work harder now than I did at my job. My job was easy, and well paying. But it limited me. I hate limits. That's why I speed on the freeway all the time. I have to get up early to trade, do lots of research as to what I want to buy. 85% of trading is know when to enter. It's hard, and it's dangerous. But I like it, because I know that if I don't want to, I don't have to.

Further, I am not doing it for someone else. I am doing it for me. My girlfriend works for a company that doesn't care about her. I worked in the same situation for years. We work, give up a large part of our lives for people who don't care about us. We are merely input. We are part of an equation.
Labor + Capital = Output.
I don't want to be a factor in someone elses equation. So I stopped. She still works, and makes money for some rich guy in a suit somewhere. Screw that. She might enjoy it, she might move up, she might get more money, better benefits, get out of her cubicle (cage, I call it) and into an office with a window, but she will still be confined by four walls, a desk, a schedule. That's no way to live. Human beings were not meant to be in cages. There is a big world out there, and I want to see it.

[As an addendum, there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to be safe. It's probably a smarter and wise choice. But I know it's not for me. I wish my girl could make the same choice as I do, but she's smarter than me, and chooses the better option. I wish I could change her mind, but I decided to stop trying, because it's wrong. It's not my place. The reason I feel so strongly about it, however, is that I reason I choose to be free (note that I said choose, not chose. It's an active decision that I constantly make) partly because I want to be able to do the things I really want to do, but also because I want to be able to be with the people I want to be with. As is it, with her choice and I mine, I can't fulfill the latter, and it torments me.]

Wow. If I didn't know any better, I would think we were talking about the differences between Communisum and Democracy.


-KnightRider2000

the safest job that I could find myself loving.

(and nice one knightrider, I was thinking that too)

Balance

(to Hellequinn) But does your freedom come at the expense of others? Without all those factory workers, farm workers, people in cubicles, what would you be trading? You say humans aren't meant to be caged, but your freedom depends on the caging of others.

(I'm not trying to be hostile and I've never been in the stock market, so let me know if that's completely wrong)

I think I'm with Seb. Instead of music I have painting, and it's not exactly stable work either. I work like hell at it (going to the studio right after I finish this post) but the rewards are mysterious and to a large degree unpredictable. I don't plan to have a financially dependent spouse or children, so that doesn't come into the equation. I risk myself. If, at some distant point in time, I manage to become financially stable and am capable of it, I'll probably adopt. But that's no time soon.

It's a symbotic relationship.

The rich need the working class to provide day-to-day services, and working class need the rich to provide jobs and housing.

It's not the us vs. them philosophy, it's simply the fact that the rich and poor are two halves of a greater whole. The only question is which of the two roles you play. Without one, the other would not survive for very long.

You can choose the red pill or the blue pill...

Free

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I also hate working a job b/c I know that investing and business is a far better route. Investing can make you rich (or at least financially secure), but working a job year in and year out will get you nowhere, fast.

The people the artcle in this thread criticizes would ALL choose SAFE:
http://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?t=36982

You're free either way, so long as YOU made the choice. If you CHOOSE to live a life defined by shedules and work, you're still free. It's not how you live your life that determines whether you're free or not, its the fact that you can CHOOSE how to live your life that does.

That said, I'd choose your description of "free". I certainly don't need money to be happy.


edit: It sounds like some of you are slaves to money.

Safe, but having a job I loved.

I love my job. It's the greatest thing I have ever done. My hours are 100% steady, and the pay is great. I work 4 days a week, monday through thursday 8:30 - 6:30 and I have every weekend off. It's great.

So I'd choose to stay in a position similar to the one I'm in. I help people daily, and I pretty much get to run around and do whatever I want. It's awesome.

No, A), that would be the difference between communism and Capitalism, and b) it was already stated that the person to turn this inot a policial debate will be tarre and feathered or something similar, so no more.

FREEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMMM
- william wallace

Freedom FTW.

What are you talking about?

1) Communism is an ECONOMIC theory and not a political one (I think someone already mentioned this)

2) Totalitarianism, which is what you're getting at, doesn't necessarily ensure that you're more SAFE. It just ensures that there's one mind controlling everything rather than 9320482 minds running rampant. (And thus you're just in danger from the vices of one mind, rather than 9320482)

3) Besides the point, freedom as is discussed in this context I think has nothing to do with democracy, because democracy never works. It's never historically worked, and especially now, with globalization=misinformation and the majority of people having over-influenced ideals, it most likely won't work now.


</unrelated>

Matter at hand.. since the 'safety' option is very economically based and doesn't entail anything else, it's kind of a weird choice .. because the 'freedom' option entails everything, including economic freedom.

But since I'm living in america, I'll choose freedom based on the (still generally) effective system of meritocracy. The Crevacour (spelling) vision of america minus the agrarian stuff and everything else except that description of that guy that comes, works hard, and succeeds per the american dream :p

I choose safe. I would rather know that everything will be fine than to not know if I'll be able to support myself, let alone a wife and kids. If I can be safe and still do something I can enjoy, then why's that so bad? Right now, I'm a music major here at college, but I'm going to change my major to something computer related. That's something safe, is it not? But it's something that I can live with and even enjoy. Some of us have to play it safe and have the peace of mind from knowing that.

Looooong story short

Free

I would have to go with safe on this one. There is too much at risk, and I can't afford to throw my entire future away so I can do other, trivial things. Although I do understand what you mean about your girl, it is hard when our schedules and goals conflict with those we care about. Torment is a good word to describe it.

There are many times when I want to choose free, when I want to know what it's like to live on just enough money and to do what I want. On the other hand, I know I'll choose safe in the end because I also want to have a wife and have someone to support.

I guess the trick is being safe doing something you love.

The beauty of freedom is that you can choose to be safe. The problem with democracy is that other people can choose FOR YOU.

I think you can find freedom in safety, whether you live by a schedule or not. I don't believe myself to be an excentric guy, neither confined nor wreckless, and I find that although I do live by the typical schedule of work and weekends, I find in that spare time, a lot of freedom.

The very fact that I am here writing this is proof of freedom. The very fact that I going out of town next weekend with my girlfriend for a nice get away in the mountains is a proof of freedom.

Then again, from the outside, it might seem my life is just steady and scheduled. I mean, I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I have a 2 hour per day workout schedule. My girlfriend lives the same type of life.

I have steady money, I don't worry about my next meal, nor about paying my mortgage. And hey, I'm free to do anything else.

I think you depicted two extremes, and that it is quite easy to attain both freedom and safety in life. I wouldn't trade any of my life, nor the good or bad times, for more freedom, or more safety.

^ I'm not getting your point.