Hello everyone, I've been taking singing lessons and trying to figure out this whole diaphragmatic breathing whilst singing bit. I'm finding it very difficult to get this kind of "muscle memorization and coordination" as my teacher calls it. Currently I think my singing kind of sucks. At least, on the high notes. I'm a Baritone, but closer to Base than Tenor.

Does anyone have a similar problem, or better yet, some suggestions for helping me to resolve it. I don't think I've been practicing enough, but I do want to get serious about this. I'm planning to audition for my school musical. I already have the acting down quite well I think, but the singing is given me much greater difficulty.

Any help on proper breathing and singing tips are greatly appreciated!

Well, I took choir for 7 years in school. The diaphram thing is hard to explain, but once you do it, its insanely easy to do.

Try these tricks to do it:

Puffing out your stomach by breathing in.

Imagine you are breathing with your stomach.

When you are breathing in with your diaphram, it becomes really easy to sustain a note for a long period, or to cover those long pieces with no areas to breathe.

As for hitting the high notes, the key is always a lot of air. If you aren't putting out a lot of air, then you aren't going to hit the note strong, and you're gonna to fall short or go way over the top.

Finally, if you are one of those more self-concious types, you have to really suck it up. If you are weak and timid, you won't hit the notes. Just drive it out there, and you'll be surprised how much easier it is.

Try breathing with your diaphram all the time.

You learn to as a martial artist to breathe in deep and slow in the diaphram, and keep your breaths steady. Of course, in your case is different; but the principals are the same, and goes to show more people forget how to breathe.

When I meditate, I would breath in slow and deep up to 2 inhales and 2 exhales in 60 seconds. All from the diaphram.

Too many people breath with their lungs, and not their body That will lead to problems when you are older. Babies are born to breath naturally diaphramic, and as we grow older we recognize that other people are breathing with their lungs, and therefore our breaths get shorter. Older people breath with their chest constantly, when I dont think you should do that.

[Why do I have problems making slashes, apostrophies, and other marks when typign in Massassi? And why does firefox not allow me to cut[slash]copy[slash]paste?]

Uhh, it does, you're just weird.

Does what have what?

lie down and put a book on your stomach. Start breathing and watch the book rise up and down. That's what you're going for when you're singing. it really is muscle memorization, because I've been trained to do this for so long I now do in naturally, not just when I sing. Also do some stacatto excercizes. while you're doing those your stomach should be moving like crazy, if you're doing it correctly. Basically, your shoulders should not be moving when you're breathing. It becomes easy and natural once you start doing it. Because, as stated above that's how you're supposed to breathe anyway. If you see a baby, you'll notice that when they breathe, their stomach move, not their shoulders.

Also, for hitting the high notes, two major things are important, the first and foremost being breath support of course. The second thing is relaxation. Most people (myself included, I'm working on that) kind of tense up when they know they have to hit a high note, which only makes it worse. relax your shoulders, and instead of thinking about how high you have to go, concentrate on keeping your body alligned and creating a big space in your mouth (what singer doesn't love hearing those 3 words "drop your jaw") and all that fun stuff. Another way I've been taught of thinking of it is like someone is pulling a peice of string from your spine up through the top of your head. Sounds wierd, but it works sometimes. But don't think of how high the note is or your throat will tense up.

also: obviously there's a lot to think about when you're singing. Practice doing all this a lot so it becomes second nature. That way there's less to think about while you're trying to sing.

Wow, thankyou everyone! All of this is very helpful. A lot of this my teacher has already told me, but it's good to hear it again and in perhaps a slightly more broken down way. I've also picked up several new bits and pieces. I'll try these suggestions out, and post back hopefully!

While what everyone else has said is very important, don't forget that you DO breathe in via your lungs. It's not like your air isn't going through your lungs, it's just that your diagram (sp?) does the work, or something. You get a lot of energy through breathing in general -- it fills your entire body sort of thing. But in any case, I'd listen to these people, especially sugarless, since she's a voice major

bass

the voice part is spelled Bass, even though it sounds like base.

Yeah, music is weird like that. I wish I understood more about music myself.

(on a random note, I am also a baritone. More towards the bass definately. Which sucks, as I tend to find most solo-low note stuff to be depressing, and I like the happier music. Oh well.)

Oh, silly me, I should know that. :p

Thanks for clarifying. And Yes Gebohq, it's a shame that deeper voices seem to land the more gloomy-doomy songs.

Well I've played tenor sax for a number of years, and one of the most important things when it comes to tone and control is controling your airflow and intake with your diaphram. Just try to breathe from your belly, not from your chest.

That's why you have falsetto fool!

So you can crank out Bohemian Rhapsody with perfection!

I was a bass in high school, which is even more dull than baritone, because the majority of the base part is highly repetitive, deep, and tiring (as in, you do a lot of it). But on the random occassion when bass nets a good part in a song, it rocks

Oh, and I got this sexay "Outstanding Bass Award" too. I'll see if I can get a pic of it

Yay for crappy cell phone pics!

You should sing pretty much the same way to breathe, except you should only expell as much air as necessary to produce the pitch and volume you want. If you hear the sound of you're breath while you're singing, you're expelling too much air... unless you're wanting a breathy sound, then it's fine. But it's also weird when guys do it. :-\

no, if it sounds breathy, it's not usually that you're expelling too much air, it's just that you're not supporting it

I notice breathing from the diaphragm is taking more effort, could it be because it hasn't been used or am I just making it harder than it has to be?

[QUOTE=Bounty Hunter 4 hire]I notice breathing from the diaphragm is taking more effort, could it be because it hasn't been used or am I just making it harder than it has to be?[/QUOTE]

With the diaphram you are pretty much forced to breathe deeper. This makes it feel like more work, but over time, it really isn't. The reason is that you breathe less often because you are taking much more air in at once. It's the difference between panting like crazy or breathing smoothly

I'm not quite sure if I have this diaphragmatic breathing down, but I might be close. My shoulders aren't moving, my "stomach" is expanding, and I am breathing in and out through my nose. My breath is fairly noisy though.

Also, I find it hard to breath this way after jogging or exercising, I breathe much louder than I would with my mouth open. I also am not exactly sure how I am meant to sing diaphragmatically, even if I am able to be breathe like so. How do you combine the two in order that I can lengthen and hold certain notes?

Thanks again.

You breathe louder because you are moving more air :p

Ahh, well, that would make sense.

it seems like you're having issues controlling your breath, which basically only comes with practice

So do you singers out there all breathe with your diaphragm all the time? Or only when practicing and singing? Does it become second nature just to breathe like that normally?


[edit: can't spell]

After a while you just do it anyway. But that's usually a long while afterwards.

Tight pants and make-up.

I want to learn to sing more than anything else. Problem is, I don't know where to start.

I used to go to music school and I learned to sing there pretty well (best of the class! - without correct breathing techniques though). But now the classical falsetto voice I learned there doesn't interest me anymore. It doesn't reflect life. It doesn't come from the earth if that makes sense.

An excellent singer(non-classical, untrained) said to me once: 'you have to push the sound in your belly, fix it there like a ball. The sound goes up from there, not from the ground. And the sound is pushed out from the back of your throat.' Does this make sense to anyone? Is there a special technique to achieve this full, projecting voice? I know I'm being abstract, so I'm asking you guys if you recognize any techniques in it, if you can put it into practical words better than I can.

And I'm too shy to do it indoors, or where people can hear me practice, but I don't know where to do it elsewhere. Any help?

Cool Matty? sugarless5?

Imagine a point about 6 inches in front of you, and imagine that your voice is coming out there, rather than inside you.

It's weird, but it really, really works.

yeah, where in falsetto, you're using your head voice, with the sound you're going for you will be using your chest voice. It's in where you're reaching for your voice, and it's kind of an abstract concept, so it's really only explained in abstract terms. The one thing I can tell you is do not sing with your throat. Ever. Sing from your chest, your head, sing like it's coming from a point in front of you (I've never heard that one, coolmatty, that's kinda cool) but never make your throat do the work or you won't have a voice for long.

I seem to be able to breathe diaphragmatically now!

However, singing diaphragmatically is another matter.

I'm currently trying to learn some of the songs from my school's upcoming musical for my audition. I started off well, but I'm starting to get tired after singing this song through for about the 10th time. And how do I harness my diaphragmatic breathing while singing? You can't breathe in through your nose while your mouth is open singing? Sugarless, how do you do it?

first of all - what show are you guys doing? just plain curiosity

as for everything else, unfortunately you can't breathe in, even through your nose, while holding out a note (which is a real shame, that would make everything else so much easier). Pick points in the song where you can take a breath, usually at the end of a phrase and of course rests and such. Mark them in the music if you're using music. Do not ever breathe in the middle of a phrase - this is why it's important to know when you're taking your breaths ahead of time, so that you can play around with the phrasing and what works best for you. That way you're not winging it at the audition. When it's time for you to take a breath, relax, you don't have to gasp for air, and take a breath from your diaphragm. Now how to support with it, it doesn't really take much concious effort - your body wants to use the air how it's supposed to. I had something really good that my voice teacher told me but I can't think of it right now - I'll post again if I think of it.

Wow, thanks, that's really helpful. Unfortunately, this song is very "long-winded" for lack of a bett word. I mean, it does have gaps and pauses, but they're intermittent. Sometimes the song goes for a good 25 notes at largo speed without a break (I don't know how many bars, I wish I knew my musical terminology).

As for the musical, my school's making it.

Hard to believe, I know, it's about Esther (as in the Biblical character). I hope it turns out ok. Needless to say, all of the songs have been written for it.

I tend to see most things like singing to be reachable after you know the basics and you practice enough. I've been recently trying to improve my singing so this thread has been quite useful

OK, cool, thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it, both of you. Call me girly, but I need to be able to do this. Don't give up on me!

The guy I spoke said the sound had to come from the back of the throat, in order for it to sound as dark as possible.

Let me try to explain it this way: what classical singers do when singing is this. They take an idea, a concept, an emotion, and they transform it, they sublimate it. in their vocal quality

So, idea A is sung as A'.

What I'm looking for is the untransformed sound. The sound is used by singers of certain traditional styles. It comes, fixed from the stomac, upwards, etc like I mentioned above. But it doesn't go through any filters, or adaptations, like classical singing techniques do. The roughness, etc, is a plus, not a minus.

So, idea A is sung as close to A as possible.

I'm so emo.

I'm probably not making sense, but I'd really appreciate a reply nonetheless.