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ForumsDiscussion Forum → "Fear destroys what Bin Laden could not"
"Fear destroys what Bin Laden could not"
2005-12-31, 8:54 AM #1
Quote:
One wonders if Osama bin Laden didn't win after all. He ruined the America that existed on 9/11. But he had help.

If, back in 2001, anyone had told me that four years after bin Laden's attack our president would admit that he broke U.S. law against domestic spying and ignored the Constitution -- and then expect the American people to congratulate him for it -- I would have presumed the girders of our very Republic had crumbled.

Had anyone said our president would invade a country and kill 30,000 of its people claiming a threat that never, in fact, existed, then admit he would have invaded even if he had known there was no threat -- and expect America to be pleased by this -- I would have thought our nation's sensibilities and honor had been eviscerated.

If I had been informed that our nation's leaders would embrace torture as a legitimate tool of warfare, hold prisoners for years without charges and operate secret prisons overseas -- and call such procedures necessary for the nation's security -- I would have laughed at the folly of protecting human rights by destroying them.

If someone had predicted the president's staff would out a CIA agent as revenge against a critic, defy a law against domestic propaganda by bankrolling supposedly independent journalists and commentators, and ridicule a 37-year Marine Corps veteran for questioning U.S. military policy -- and that the populace would be more interested in whether Angelina is about to make Brad a daddy -- I would have called the prediction an absurd fantasy.

That's no America I know, I would have argued. We're too strong, and we've been through too much, to be led down such a twisted path.

What is there to say now?

All of these things have happened. And yet a large portion of this country appears more concerned that saying ''Happy Holidays'' could be a disguised attack on Christianity.

I evidently have a lot poorer insight regarding America's character than I once believed, because I would have expected such actions to provoke -- speaking metaphorically now -- mobs with pitchforks and torches at the White House gate. I would have expected proud defiance of anyone who would suggest that a mere terrorist threat could send this country into spasms of despair and fright so profound that we'd follow a leader who considers the law a nuisance and perfidy a privilege.

Never would I have expected this nation -- which emerged stronger from a civil war and a civil rights movement, won two world wars, endured the Depression, recovered from a disastrous campaign in Southeast Asia and still managed to lead the world in the principles of liberty -- would cower behind anyone just for promising to ``protect us.''

President Bush recently confirmed that he has authorized wiretaps against U.S. citizens on at least 30 occasions and said he'll continue doing it. His justification? He, as president -- or is that king? -- has a right to disregard any law, constitutional tenet or congressional mandate to protect the American people.

Is that America's highest goal -- preventing another terrorist attack? Are there no principles of law and liberty more important than this? Who would have remembered Patrick Henry had he written, ``What's wrong with giving up a little liberty if it protects me from death?''

Bush would have us excuse his administration's excesses in deference to the ''war on terror'' -- a war, it should be pointed out, that can never end. Terrorism is a tactic, an eventuality, not an opposition army or rogue nation. If we caught every person guilty of a terrorist act, we still wouldn't know where tomorrow's first-time terrorist will strike. Fighting terrorism is a bit like fighting infection -- even when it's beaten, you must continue the fight or it will strike again.

Are we agreeing, then, to give the king unfettered privilege to defy the law forever? It's time for every member of Congress to weigh in: Do they believe the president is above the law, or bound by it?

Bush stokes our fears, implying that the only alternative to doing things his extralegal way is to sit by fitfully waiting for terrorists to harm us. We are neither weak nor helpless. A proud, confident republic can hunt down its enemies without trampling legitimate human and constitutional rights.

Ultimately, our best defense against attack -- any attack, of any sort -- is holding fast and fearlessly to the ideals upon which this nation was built. Bush clearly doesn't understand or respect that. Do we?

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/13487511.htm

Certainly, the author has an idyllic view of pre-911 America, but he raises several valid points nonetheless. Fearmongering at the hands of the Bush Administration has done what terrorism hasn't, and has damaged our freedom in a way that an attack itself never could.
2005-12-31, 8:59 AM #2
There is really no difference. There is nothing new under the sun. The government has been doing illegal things for ages. If you think this is new or surprising you need to study your history better.
2005-12-31, 9:02 AM #3
I completelly agree. Using fear as a platform to government "protection" is obsurd.
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2005-12-31, 9:29 AM #4
Originally posted by JediKirby:
I completelly agree. Using fear as a platform to government "protection" is obsurd.


ditto.
2005-12-31, 9:41 AM #5
I agree with the author that in our attempts to combat the terrorists we're, in actuallity, making things worse. For example:

Let's say I was a terrorist. Pre-2001, I might understand noone would really pay attention to us, not on a large enough scale at least. But now, post-2001, the strongest nation in the world fears us, and is destroying itself trying to block us, and if we wanted to we could simply target something they haven't blocked yet.

2005-12-31, 9:51 AM #6
Its all a bunch of BS. The world keeps spinning and life goes on... ask your selves this: Has your life changed enough to the point that you think the U.S. lost a war? Nooo. All this stuff about domestic spying and such is crap from people that do have something to hide. Personaly, I've seen worse. I spent 1 year in Columbia, this is nothing.
Nothing to see here, move along.
2005-12-31, 10:00 AM #7
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
There is really no difference. There is nothing new under the sun. The government has been doing illegal things for ages. If you think this is new or surprising you need to study your history better.

Okay, this is what ends nations. "Oh god, it's the government, we can't stop them, they've been doing this for ages" blah blah blah. WE have the power to change that. This is all new--they haven't had the Patriot Act for changes, they haven't had Camp X-Ray for ages, they haven't been doing this **** for ages, it's just your young, inexperienced, conservative mind rationalizing the things our inept and wholly unqualified President has been doing in the name of "National Security". Grow up and please stop being such a defeatist.

I also find it interesting that a 15 year old can think to lecture a bunch of 18-30 year olds on their history.
D E A T H
2005-12-31, 10:03 AM #8
[quote=Hermann Goering]Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.[/quote]

Sound familiar?
Stuff
2005-12-31, 10:26 AM #9
Bah... we got attacked first, even before 9/11.
Nothing to see here, move along.
2005-12-31, 1:20 PM #10
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
Its all a bunch of BS. The world keeps spinning and life goes on... ask your selves this: Has your life changed enough to the point that you think the U.S. lost a war? Nooo. All this stuff about domestic spying and such is crap from people that do have something to hide. Personaly, I've seen worse. I spent 1 year in Columbia, this is nothing.



Perspective. You have it. Most Americans don't. The truth is, we don't even know what bad is.
Pissed Off?
2005-12-31, 1:52 PM #11
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Okay, this is what ends nations. "Oh god, it's the government, we can't stop them, they've been doing this for ages" blah blah blah. WE have the power to change that. This is all new--they haven't had the Patriot Act for changes, they haven't had Camp X-Ray for ages, they haven't been doing this **** for ages, it's just your young, inexperienced, conservative mind rationalizing the things our inept and wholly unqualified President has been doing in the name of "National Security". Grow up and please stop being such a defeatist.

I also find it interesting that a 15 year old can think to lecture a bunch of 18-30 year olds on their history.[/QUOTE]

Thats amusing because Obi_Kwiet is completely right. Of course it wasnt called the Patriot Act but your phone calls and emails were be monitored long before 9/11.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/18/221452.shtml
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2005-12-31, 2:00 PM #12
Originally posted by JKSERVER:
Thats amusing because Obi_Kwiet is completely right. Of course it wasnt called the Patriot Act but your phone calls and emails were be monitored long before 9/11.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/18/221452.shtml

Oh please. There isn't a roll-eyes big enough for this. Echelon? Go back to playing Deus Ex, kthx.

Quote:
There is really no difference. There is nothing new under the sun. The government has been doing illegal things for ages. If you think this is new or surprising you need to study your history better.

I dread the day you reach voting age.
2005-12-31, 2:01 PM #13
Originally posted by JKSERVER:
Thats amusing because Obi_Kwiet is completely right. Of course it wasnt called the Patriot Act but your phone calls and emails were be monitored long before 9/11.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/18/221452.shtml

Not legally nor publically. There's only so much we can stop--and we have to stop what we can before it snowballs into something bigger. Everyone knows that information by now.
D E A T H
2005-12-31, 2:15 PM #14
Originally posted by JKSERVER:
Thats amusing because Obi_Kwiet is completely right. Of course it wasnt called the Patriot Act but your phone calls and emails were be monitored long before 9/11.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/18/221452.shtml

Any site that has "Defend DeLay" on it is instantly stripped of any fledgling traces of repute it might have once harbored.
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2005-12-31, 2:28 PM #15
Quote:
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — for ever.


-I tried, honestly, to find the quote about the coninuous war, but the word "continuous" is used something like 500+ times in 1984.

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