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ForumsDiscussion Forum → France may legalize P2P
France may legalize P2P
2006-01-03, 3:41 AM #1
Quote:
France could become the first country to pass a law broadly permitting free downloads of copyright content from the Internet for private use.

In a move that could thwart the entertainment industry's attempts to seek legal sanctions for copyright violations, French Parliament members voted 30 to 28 late Wednesday night to accept an amendment proposing such a move.

Attached to a broader copyright law proposal, the amendment--roughly translated--reads: "Authors cannot forbid the reproductions of works that are made on any format from an online communication service when they are intended to be used privately and when they do not imply commercial means directly or indirectly."

In short, that language could "open the way to the legalization of peer-to-peer" downloading of copyright music and movies in the nation of about 8 million Net users, Jean-Baptiste Soufron, a legal counsel with the Association of Audionauts, said in a telephone interview with CNET News.com. The French advocacy organization has represented approximately 100 clients accused of sharing files illegally.

Under French copyright law, there's a concept called "private copy," which permits people to make copies of content for themselves or their friends, Soufron said. But lately, he added, "they're having a huge debate to know if 'private copy' includes downloaded content on the Internet or not."

A French court ruled in favor of the organization recently, holding that downloaded content for personal use does meet the "private copy" definition, Soufron said. But this amendment would give firmer legal backing in a nation that relies more heavily on codified law than court precedents, he said.

The Association of Audionauts isn't suggesting that copyright holders go without compensation, Soufron said. It supports pairing the amendment's text with a royalty tax collected from Internet service providers. Those companies would likely raise the money by levying a monthly fee--say, 2 to 5 euros--on customers who engage in a certain amount of downloading and uploading.

The IFPI, a trade association that speaks for the music industry worldwide, said it was "greatly concerned" by the amendment's initial approval.

"Instead of promoting the growth of legitimate music services on the Internet, some of the measures would be extremely detrimental to legal services and to the future of the French cultural industries," the organization said in a statement provided to CNET News.com.

But IFPI European spokeswoman Francine Cunningham said the proposal doesn't appear to permit unfettered uploading of copyright content. "This distinction is important because the recording industry's ongoing litigation is against major uploaders who are breaking copyright law by making music available to others via the Internet without permission from those who created the music," she said.

Last year, a Canadian judge came to a similar conclusion, ruling it legal to download--but not to upload--copyright content from peer-to-peer services.

The ultimate success of the proposal is far from certain.

French Culture Minister Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres, along with much of the government, supports beefing up the nation's copyright laws significantly, instituting criminal penalties and steep fines for pirates. The official reopened debate on the issue on Thursday, with a second vote expected later in the day.

Even if it survives the Parliament's lower court, it would also have to win approval from its high court, which likely won't consider the measure until late January.

Across the Atlantic, the Motion Picture Association of America on Thursday called the amendment "an unfortunate development." "Most alarming is the apparent disregard for the potential impact on the French cinema industry, which will be hardest hit if this vote is upheld," said Gayle Osterberg, an MPAA vice president. "We are hopeful as this bill works its way through the legislative process, those with an eye toward fostering French cinema will prevail."

This is pretty amazing. The link is here.
2006-01-03, 3:44 AM #2
Ah, finally a thread for this.

Perhaps the only reason for me to move to France... ;)

That could make me regret not learning french too ;)
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-01-03, 3:47 AM #3
If you take away the legal restrictions of a copyright DRM layers will be added by the manufacturers. I'd rather have legal laws than more DRm, but maybe that's just me.
2006-01-03, 3:49 AM #4
I hope it passes, followed by record-shattering success for the music and movie industry in France. You could not make a bigger middle finger to the RIAA and MPAA than that.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2006-01-03, 3:52 AM #5
Originally posted by tofu:
If you take away the legal restrictions of a copyright DRM layers will be added by the manufacturers. I'd rather have legal laws than more DRm, but maybe that's just me.

I don't think it will matter. They'll keep adding DRM as long as piracy exists.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2006-01-03, 7:00 AM #6
Originally posted by Emon:
I hope it passes, followed by record-shattering success for the music and movie industry in France.


Why would people downloading all their entertainment online instead of buying it result in record-shattering success for the music and movie industry?
2006-01-03, 7:05 AM #7
Originally posted by Emon:
I hope it passes, followed by record-shattering success for the music and movie industry in France. You could not make a bigger middle finger to the RIAA and MPAA than that.


Rather than record-shattering success, all that would be needed is for their movie and music industry to stay the same, showing no affects from music/movie downloading. Record-shattering success would be nice though.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2006-01-03, 7:08 AM #8
Originally posted by Emon:
I hope it passes, followed by record-shattering success for the music and movie industry in France. You could not make a bigger middle finger to the RIAA and MPAA than that.


Amen.

It's not about protecting the rights and the income of the artists at all. Because the record companies are the only ones profiting from copyright laws. Legalizing downloads could be a breakthrough in bringing down the extortion practises of this monopolistic industry that has had worldwide protection from federal governments for far too long now. It's the record industry that is ripping artists off, that is the true piracy.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-01-03, 7:18 AM #9
What's wrong with iTunes and similar services? It sounds like most of you guys are a bunch of scrubby communists that aren't going to be satisfied with any service that makes you *gasp* actually pay for music. The same goes for movies. Star Wars 3 can be had for a mere $18 for the 2-DVD set. Is that too much to ask for? If so, why then did a hundred thousand people download the movie instead? Out of "protest for the monopolistic supressive evil empire?" What a lame excuse. You're hurting music and movie makers more than the RIAA or the MPAA.
2006-01-03, 7:21 AM #10
Quote:
It sounds like most of you guys are a bunch of scrubby communists


Mean COMMIES zomg
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-01-03, 7:28 AM #11
Originally posted by KnobZ:
What's wrong with iTunes and similar services? It sounds like most of you guys are a bunch of scrubby communists that aren't going to be satisfied with any service that makes you *gasp* actually pay for music. The same goes for movies. Star Wars 3 can be had for a mere $18 for the 2-DVD set. Is that too much to ask for? If so, why then did a hundred thousand people download the movie instead? Out of "protest for the monopolistic supressive evil empire?" What a lame excuse. You're hurting music and movie makers more than the RIAA or the MPAA.


Noooo way sir. Read this, for example.

Besides, what are you talking about? I downloaded RotS too, but only because I wanted to have it untill the DVD came out. Most people who downloaded it are buying the DVD anyway. At least, I did. And I download music too. But if I really want a cd, a collection of MP3's is not going to satisfy me. I'll buy it.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-01-03, 8:26 AM #12
P2P is legal in Canada as well. At least, it is legal to download movies, music, and anything else other than Child POrnography.
2006-01-03, 9:03 AM #13
Originally posted by KnobZ:
Why would people downloading all their entertainment online instead of buying it result in record-shattering success for the music and movie industry?

1) Ever since people started downloading music, record sales have went UP. Because people can open their eyes to what they like, and then pay to support those bands. Trust me, I've seen it happen to me and others.

2) Hundreds of thousands downloaded RotS alright. BEFORE IT CAME OUT IN THEATERS. It was the most anticipated movie in nerddom--it also got released weeks before it showed in theaters. There's a reason why hundreds of thousands downloaded it, and in the end all they got was a ****ty cam. They still went to see it in theaters, and still bought the DVD up like hotcakes.

3) If it weren't for people downloading music, iTunes would never exist (at least not as we know it today). Thank napster, morpheus, and kazaa for iTunes.
D E A T H
2006-01-03, 9:24 AM #14
I hope it doesn't pass because I support suppressive monopolistic evil empires.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-01-03, 9:26 AM #15
I hope it doesn't pass because I know the French "underground" scene, and they don't pay for ****.
D E A T H
2006-01-03, 10:26 AM #16
Originally posted by Temperamental:
P2P is legal in Canada as well. At least, it is legal to download movies, music, and anything else other than Child Pornography.


Where do you get that info from? Just curious?
2006-01-03, 10:29 AM #17
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=p2p+legal+canada&meta=




;)


That...and I live in Canada...




...And download on an almost daily basis.
2006-01-03, 10:34 AM #18
er... it's only legal to download music in Canada, because we pay a tax on storage media which goes toward music artists.

(Edit: It's supposed to go toward artists, but as far as I'm aware the government hasn't actually given any money out. God, damn the liberals.)

It's not legal to download software, games, movies, comic book scans or anything else of that nature.
2006-01-03, 10:36 AM #19
Originally posted by Emon:
I don't think it will matter. They'll keep adding DRM as long as piracy exists.

And as long as piracy exists, DRMs will be stripped.
2006-01-03, 10:37 AM #20
Jon'C cleared that up quite a bit.

Im in Canada and a guy a town away got busted for downloading movies. But its nice to know that music is good^_^
2006-01-03, 11:19 AM #21
Oh well, I download everything. Games, Movies, music, etc. I also end up buying said movie, game, or music in the future anyways. So I don't see the big deal.


Companies and artists don't need th moeny anyways. They're just all pissed off because now not every single one of them can have a show-it-off show like "Cribs"...

As Dave Chappelle put it "Come see how im livin, you broke motha****as"
2006-01-03, 11:25 AM #22
Originally posted by Temperamental:
Oh well, I download everything. Games, Movies, music, etc. I also end up buying said movie, game, or music in the future anyways. So I don't see the big deal.


Companies and artists don't need th moeny anyways. They're just all pissed off because now not every single one of them can have a show-it-off show like "Cribs"...

As Dave Chappelle put it "Come see how im livin, you broke motha****as"

Some of them don't, but a lot of artists out there live sale-by-sale from their CDs, trying to make it.
D E A T H
2006-01-03, 11:25 AM #23
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
I hope it doesn't pass because I support suppressive monopolistic evil empires.


Facist
Pissed Off?
2006-01-03, 12:51 PM #24
Quote:
Some of them don't, but a lot of artists out there live sale-by-sale from their CDs, trying to make it.


And I totally support all of them.
2006-01-03, 1:01 PM #25
Originally posted by Avenger:
Facist

*sends the e-Gestapo after you*
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-01-03, 1:03 PM #26
i like free porn

can i download porn?
2006-01-03, 7:01 PM #27
Originally posted by Temperamental:
Companies and artists don't need th moeny anyways. They're just all pissed off because now not every single one of them can have a show-it-off show like "Cribs"...


Believe it or not, record companies (and movie companies, and software companies, etc.) are made up more than bands and big, white fat CEOs in nice suits smoking cigars. You've got sound engineers, studio musicians, interns, secretaries, IT guys, accountants - all the workings of a major corporation. Let's not mention the out-sourced work that goes to smaller privately-owned companies. These people need to be paid. Not paying for the products you use means that these people are that much more likely to be laid off. So, the next time you Right-Click and Save Target As..., keep in mind that you're stiffing more than the artists and the CEOs.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2006-01-03, 7:07 PM #28
HOT WOMEN AND LEGAL WAR3Z? ZOMG LETS ALL BECOME F4OGS!! lol111
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2006-01-03, 11:08 PM #29
Originally posted by KnobZ:
The same goes for movies. Star Wars 3 can be had for a mere $18 for the 2-DVD set. Is that too much to ask for? If so, why then did a hundred thousand people download the movie instead? Out of "protest for the monopolistic supressive evil empire?" What a lame excuse. You're hurting music and movie makers more than the RIAA or the MPAA.


The anime FLCL (Fooly Cooly) has six episodes (about twenty minutes each) spanning three separately sold DVDs. That's two episodes per volume. Each volume costs thirty dollars. Is that too much to ask for? Yes! That's ninety dollars for six episodes, and barely any special features.

In comparison, I bought my friend The Muppet Show Season One for Christmas. It has over twenty five episodes, and costs thirty five dollars. Now, that is a good deal.
"I got kicked off the high school debate team for saying 'Yeah? Well, **** you!'
... I thought I had won."
2006-01-03, 11:12 PM #30
"I can't afford it" is a pretty poor (no pun intended) excuse for taking something.

I agree that the situation you described is pretty crappy. But, then, there's a reason why I only have Season 4 of Farscape on DVD, and season 1 of ST: TNG on DVD. I can't afford the others right now, and I'll have to wait until I can to collect them.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2006-01-04, 3:29 AM #31
[QUOTE=Chaz Ghostle]The anime FLCL (Fooly Cooly) has six episodes (about twenty minutes each) spanning three separately sold DVDs. That's two episodes per volume. Each volume costs thirty dollars. Is that too much to ask for? Yes! That's ninety dollars for six episodes, and barely any special features.[/QUOTE]
nah, that cant be true, my boyfriend bought a copy of FLCL whitch has all 6 episodes on one disk, and i know he dident pay $ 90 for it; either that, or you got ripped off. :p
Laughing at my spelling herts my feelings. Well laughing is fine actully, but posting about it is not.
2006-01-04, 4:50 AM #32
I totally read this as "France may legalize PHP." gg.
2006-01-04, 5:15 AM #33
Originally posted by Elana14:
nah, that cant be true, my boyfriend bought a copy of FLCL whitch has all 6 episodes on one disk, and i know he dident pay $ 90 for it; either that, or you got ripped off. :p


Where did he get it? He might have accidently bought a bootleg. I actually haven't bought it yet, because all of the places around here sell it at the same price. If they really did release the whole series on one disk like that, I'll definitely be looking for that online.
"I got kicked off the high school debate team for saying 'Yeah? Well, **** you!'
... I thought I had won."

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