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ForumsDiscussion Forum → So a great question...
12
So a great question...
2006-01-11, 8:19 PM #1
If God is God, why does Satan exist? Why isnt he destroyed with a minor thought? Not even a thought? I never really understood. Don't follow the devil, but God has the power to do anything, why not get rid of the Devil?

SOUNDS SKETCHY
America, home of the free gift with purchase.
2006-01-11, 8:20 PM #2
because without satan, the idea of god doesn't make near as much sense. good without evil is pointless.
free(jin);
tofu sucks
2006-01-11, 8:22 PM #3
So the devil only exists so we can ignore him because God was bored and decided it was dumb to have good without evil?

This whole religion thing doesn't make a lot of sense.
America, home of the free gift with purchase.
2006-01-11, 8:24 PM #4
Satan was God's top angel that got greedy and got condemned. Hence why God has power over Satan because he isn't as powerful as God
Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
Free Jin!
2006-01-11, 8:59 PM #5
Exactly, then why doesn't god eliminate evil and be done with it? Instant utopia.
Warhead[97]
2006-01-11, 9:02 PM #6
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
Exactly, then why doesn't god eliminate evil and be done with it? Instant utopia.


I guess cause it would probably interfere with free will.
2006-01-11, 9:04 PM #7
Free will = evil, and god gave us a chance at free will. Because god knows that good without evil is BORING AS ****.
2006-01-11, 9:06 PM #8
Why are you making God out to be an external force?
2006-01-11, 9:06 PM #9
The reason Satan exists was, according to Revelations (i think?), Satan was cast out of Heaven, and given his own domain to rule in, except tainted and the opposite of Heaven, thus Hell was born. Satan believed he was powerful enough, and desereved Heaven for himself, so God granted him his own kingdom to rule, but in the form of hell, kind of "mocking" Satan. I might be totally off though too, who knows
2006-01-11, 9:06 PM #10
First of all, I'm an atheist

second of all .. because there needs to be somebody to rule over the place where all the bad dead people go (hell) :p

or various other reasons (evil is a necessity, God does not interfere, etc)
一个大西瓜
2006-01-11, 9:07 PM #11
Yeah. Satan was originally the highest angel of them all, and he covered the throne of God. But he was prideful, thought of himself better than God, and rebelled.
If God is to have creatures with free will, then the risk of rebellion is part of that freedom. Satan had that freedom and used it to rebel.
2006-01-11, 9:18 PM #12
Originally posted by Axis:
Yeah. Satan was originally the highest angel of them all, and he covered the throne of God. But he was prideful, thought of himself better than God, and rebelled.
If God is to have creatures with free will, then the risk of rebellion is part of that freedom. Satan had that freedom and used it to rebel.


I am no expert in theology, but as far as I was aware, that story comes from Milton's Paradise lost, and not from actual biblical sources.

I also know the church has denounced Milton's view towards the devil several times through history...
"Well, if I am not drunk, I am mad, but I trust I can behave like a gentleman in either
condition."... G. K. Chesterton

“questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself”
2006-01-11, 9:27 PM #13
Well, um... you'd be wrong about that. I was reading Paradise Lost yesterday, and although it's a -lot- of fiction, the stuff that I said is true. That is, if you go by the Bible.

I believe Ezekiel 28 is refering in part to Satan and his pride. There's also Isaiah 14:12-14.
2006-01-11, 9:28 PM #14
According to the South Park movie: "Without evil there would be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes!"
"I got kicked off the high school debate team for saying 'Yeah? Well, **** you!'
... I thought I had won."
2006-01-11, 9:33 PM #15
All this stuff about Satan, demons and God is ... really hard to swallow.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2006-01-11, 9:38 PM #16
you're all going to hell anyway *holds up the soul bag*
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2006-01-11, 11:42 PM #17
Satan is bully. He was invented to scare people into the church.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-01-12, 12:10 AM #18
no...
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2006-01-12, 12:47 AM #19
Originally posted by drizzt2k2:
If God is God, why does Satan exist? Why isnt he destroyed with a minor thought? Not even a thought? I never really understood. Don't follow the devil, but God has the power to do anything, why not get rid of the Devil?

SOUNDS SKETCHY


Because getting rid of Satan would solve nothing. Satan is not God's equal - he is just a fallen angel. Satan existance is not the main reason evil exists. While he was the first to sin, the concept of sin did not start with him.

Sin is defined as "not doing the will of God". If you do something that God has told you not to do, its a sin. If you don't do something God has told you to do, its a sin. God is the one that defines what is good and evil. Evil and Sin are essentially the same thing. Because of this definition, eliminating Satan would not get rid of evil because as long as humanity has a free will, sin will always exist.

God will eventually destory Satan when the time comes for it. God allows Satan to exist because he knows that Satan will attack humans. God wants us to realize how wicked evil is and to turn from it so by allowing Satan to exist and to roam free, it allows God to test humanity to see if they will either turn away from sin or embrace it.
The cake is a lie... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!
2006-01-12, 12:58 AM #20
Go watch Timebandits. Now.
It isn't exactly about Satan, but a personification of evil.
Sorry for the lousy German
2006-01-12, 1:07 AM #21
Originally posted by Axis:
Satan was originally the highest angel of them all, and he covered the throne of God.

I know that was a typo, but...

If one of my minions "covered" my throne, then I'd chuck them out as well.
2006-01-12, 1:12 AM #22
He covered it in a fine goo, they say.

God was so upset, because he wasn't invited to the shindig.

So he cast out Satan.
2006-01-12, 1:28 AM #23
What rob says was found carved into a stone tablet which was brought down from the peak of the McDonals arches. It is canon.
>>untie shoes
2006-01-12, 1:28 AM #24
One thing I've wondered, why exactly did Satan fall? Satan's fall implies that humans are not the only creations God imbued with free will. He must have granted angels free will as well.

Demons, I believe and please correct me if I'm wrong, are not actually fallen angels, but creations of Satan as Hell's antithesis of Heaven's angels. Which leads me to ask, why is Satan the only angel to have fallen? (Again, please correct me if I'm wrong) I find it rather difficult to believe that no other angels have fallen to Satan's temptations, or at least not that

Another thing: God is perfect correct? He created humans in his image, but he didn't make them perfect. He gave them free will, and thus the choice to sin. However, I have never heard any priest or minister say anything about God creating angels as anything but perfect beings. Angels must be imperfect though, if they can fall as Satan did. So if humans become angels after entering heaven, then they still have free will and can still sin. I find it rather difficult to believe that once in heaven, all people make decisions that follow God's will all of the time.

I don't think I quite made any convincing points in this post, but hopefully someone will pick up on the thread I was trying to catch and explain it.
Marsz, marsz, Dąbrowski,
Z ziemi włoskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Złączym się z narodem.
2006-01-12, 1:57 AM #25
Humans were perfect until they sinned.

I don't know a whole lot on the subject of angels, but following the same logic, I would say that angels are perfect, as well, unless or until they sin.

Free will itself is not imperfection, but using that free will to sin is.


As for the subject of demons/angels... If I'm not mistaken, there are more fallen angels than just Satan. Satan just happens to be the head honcho. So I think "demon" can refer to either a fallen angel, or the spawn of satan. I am, however, not entirely sure on this, so take my word with a grain of salt.
Moo.
2006-01-12, 6:15 AM #26
Quote:
Jude 6:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Also, humans do not become angels when they die. Angels and humans are two totally different things, but they are all creations of God.

Some people belive that when Satan fell, he took a third of heaven/the angels down with him.

Quote:
Rev. 12:3-4
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Quote:
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

Quote:
Matt. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

Quote:
Rev. 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him
2006-01-12, 7:51 AM #27
ok here's what really happened... it was poker night.. i caught jesus cheating so i broke a bottle and said some harsh words

then i stormed out and god changed the locks
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2006-01-12, 7:58 AM #28
Originally posted by Axis:
Yeah. Satan was originally the highest angel of them all, and he covered the throne of God. But he was prideful, thought of himself better than God, and rebelled.
If God is to have creatures with free will, then the risk of rebellion is part of that freedom. Satan had that freedom and used it to rebel.


So what you're saying is that god has charisma issues?
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enshu
2006-01-12, 9:36 AM #29
nothing can exist without an opposite or it can't exist.
2006-01-12, 9:40 AM #30
[QUOTE=Darth Evad]nothing can exist without an opposite or it can't exist.[/QUOTE]

So what is the opposite of a moose, a can of tomato soup and my mom? Etc. :confused:
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2006-01-12, 12:10 PM #31
Originally posted by Echoman:
So what is the opposite of a moose, a can of tomato soup and my mom? Etc. :confused:


I was just asking myself the same question.

I guess the opposite of 'your mom' would be 'not your mom at all' ?

In that case, the opposite of god wouldn't be the devil, but 'No god at all'.

In that case, god and 'no god at all' would have to co-exist. Interesting paradox. Hmmmmm..... meditate upon this, I must.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-01-12, 12:19 PM #32
Originally posted by Ric_Olie:
Demons, I believe and please correct me if I'm wrong, are not actually fallen angels, but creations of Satan as Hell's antithesis of Heaven's angels. Which leads me to ask, why is Satan the only angel to have fallen? (Again, please correct me if I'm wrong) I find it rather difficult to believe that no other angels have fallen to Satan's temptations, or at least not that

I'm pretty sure the demons are the 1/3 of the angels that Satan brought with him.

(Edit: Somewhat odd wording, I mean that Satan took 1/3 of the angels in heaven)
omnia mea mecum porto
2006-01-12, 12:45 PM #33
I think you just need to realize God and Satan are symbolic. Not... real.

*gasp*
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2006-01-12, 12:50 PM #34
Originally posted by Jepman:
I think you just need to realize God and Satan are symbolic. Not... real.

*gasp*


Your interpretations are not fact. Don't state them as such.
Moo.
2006-01-12, 12:53 PM #35
Some books have good stories, you know.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-01-12, 12:54 PM #36
Originally posted by Impi:
Go watch Timebandits. Now.

Woo midgets that travel through time!
2006-01-12, 12:57 PM #37
Originally posted by Tenshu:
So what you're saying is that god has charisma issues?


Would still like this answered.
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enshu
2006-01-12, 1:04 PM #38
Originally posted by Tenshu:
Would still like this answered.


Elaborate on what you're asking, and someone might answer. "Charisma issues" could mean any number of things.
Moo.
2006-01-12, 1:11 PM #39
Originally posted by A_Big_Fat_CoW:
Elaborate on what you're asking, and someone might answer. "Charisma issues" could mean any number of things.


What you're saying, is this:

God is a supreme being of ultimate Good, of Truth, of incredible Beauty. Yet he can't keep his friends entertained, to the point that 1/3 of them leave him.

What the hell? When Satan was still an angel, did he just look at god and say 'yep, he's *kinda* cool. Not supercool though. I mean, he leaves hair in the shower. I think I'll leave'.

What you're saying is that when you enter heaven (not me, I'll burn like a barbecue), you could literally be so unimpressed and desillusioned by god that you'll say '**** this ****, I'm becoming evil'.
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enshu
2006-01-12, 1:11 PM #40
Originally posted by A_Big_Fat_CoW:
Your interpretations are not fact. Don't state them as such.


I said I think. :p Nonetheless, I don't mean it as a fact, nor to force it down on anyone. Personal beliefs.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
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