For anyoen feeling to dabate about who we should feel sorry for, wether we sould fight, or basically anything that may interrupt the rememberacne thread, here's your place. please keep all debates here. To start it off, so i don't get this thread shut down, should German soldiers be remebered today? i say yes. who's next?

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²[/i]

I say yes too.

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Map-Review | My Portfolio | The Matrix: Unplugged

The Germans are people too. Remembering German soldiers who died isn't the same as having an International "Heil-Hitler" day.

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[16:38] Correction: dick tracy was a real man
[16:38] happydud: Actually...
[16:38] happydud: He wasn't.

[19:08] Dormouse: hi, my name's happydud and i'm passive-aggress.. SHUTUP!! *stabs nearby orphan*
[You have gained 3 Dark Side Points]

First things first, those Germans were doing their duty. Just because they were in the German army, doesn't mean they were Nazi followers. German. That is, has, and always will be the key word here, folks. Just because they were in the army didn't mean they agreed with what their leader stood for. Hell, Rommel wasn't even a Nazi and he was commander of the German armed forces if I'm not mistaken.

I don't believe in many of President Bush's ideals, but that doesn't mean I would abandon my country.

Agree?

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I don't want your signature on the same page as mine. It's talking to my signature, and making it feel bad about itself.

Yeah.

Nazi = German
German != Nazi

"Huh?" you say?
All Nazis were Germans, but not all Germans were Nazis. Just the same way logic = good && good != logic

Heh heh, this really fits here...


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for(i = 0; i < 00; i = i + 1) Print("massassi is good");
PrintInt(i); //print the integer value of infinity (if we ever get there)

[This message has been edited by Darth Slaw (edited June 06, 2004).]

Yeah. I bet the Jews remember the SS real well. I notice you didn't spedcify how you said to remember them. :P. Ahh well, officily "no comment".

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited June 06, 2004).]

You know for someone that always feels the need to tell others what kind of ******* they are, you sure seem to be a prime example of one Obi.

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I don't want your signature on the same page as mine. It's talking to my signature, and making it feel bad about itself.

I personally dedicate the day (yesterday) to soldiers on both sides. I'm not sure what TheJkWhoSaysNi was on about; I'm still trying to figure out whether he was in on the jest. (TheJkWhoSaysNi, If you're reading this, hi!)

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If you can read this, you need better glasses.

I respect those German soldiers who were dragged into the war and who didn't follow or support Hitler's idea of genocide (or didn't know of it.) But I do not respect the German soldiers who operated the camps, forced people into the camps, followed or given orders of mass execution, responsible for mass POW executions, organized racist and anti-semitic rallys, directly connected to Hitler commands and so on.

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Nazis don't have to be German. Anyone can be a national socialist. There are some radical groups in Britain that follow the teachings of Hitler, like Combat 18 (the 18 refers to the letters of the alphabet, A H, the initials of Adolf Hitler).
And the KKK could be said to be nazi? I'm not quite sure what their political ideology is.
Note, don't confuse 'national socialism' with 'socialism'. Hitler really wasn't a very good socialist at all. Unless Hitler wasn't a very good national socialist either? I don't know any other national socialists.

He said 'were,' meaning that hitler's nazi army was made up of germans.

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There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|My Portfolio|My Levels

Gotta remember that loads of German soldiers were just kids who were forced to fight for Hitler from random countries he occupied.

I bet that was a whole heap of fun.

And I believe I speak for everyone, on this issue, issues past and issues to come when I say to Obi:

...

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

Don't forget, though, that at the time the Jews were not particularly popular throughout the world, and the Nazis gained support from anti-semites.
Henry Ford was an outspoken anti-Semite and was a big doner to the Nazi party. In the 1920s, Ford bankrolled Hitler, and Hitler supposedly had a large picture of Henry Ford in his private office. Hitler actually borrowed passages from Ford's book 'The International Jew' to use in Mein Kampf. Ford never denied that he had bankrolled Hitler, and Hitler presented him with the Nazi's highest decoration for foreginers, the Grand Cross of the German Eagle.

The Curtiss-Wright Aviation company taught dive-bombing to Hitler's Luftwaffe, even though the US Navy expressly prohibited it.

General Motors earned $36 million ten years before war broke out and $20 million invested in companies owned or controlled by Nazi officials. GM might also have been plotting against the Roosevelt administration. They "signed a joint agreement showing total commitment to the Nazi cause for the indefinite future," and proclaimed that "in view of Roosevelt's attitude toward Germany, every effort must be made to remove him by defeat at the next election. Jewish influence in the political, cultural, and public life in America must be stamped out. Press and radio must be subsidized to smear the administration".

Nazi support in America certainly wasn't more than a minority, but many of those were very influential minorities.

False, I recall a story about a Dutch nazi, which I read about in a former concentration camp (now a museum, and monument.) Also, Echoman speaks much truth.

Technically the pre-war Grossdeutchland encompassed Austria and Sudet-Czechoslovakia too. Not to mention the volunteer SS units drawn from occupied territories.

I was surprised that this was the first time that surviving German veterans had officially been invited. I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to attend. Those that didn't survive the campaign have their own cemetary there. Why deny the ever-dwindling amount of surviving veterans from any nation the opportunity of being respected for doing their part in an important historical event?

I don't think we should remember those on the other side. They died for their cause, good for them, but if they hadn't died for their cause, and had won, they wouldn't be remembering us, and for a reason. They were against us, and whether they liked it or not they were our enemies.
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There is no signature

[This message has been edited by Dj Yoshi (edited June 07, 2004).]

Fantastic idea! When we have feelings toward the tragedies and damage the war have done on the Allies, lets just be absent-minded and forget what negative impact the "enemy" people have faced! We often like to talk about and remember the devastation and turmoil the conflict has on lives and countries, but it would be a great idea to forget how our "enemy" faced the such loss and feelings by war. We would like to remember what a huge war can do on peace and people by just focusing on us! Yay!



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Well, he has a point. Regardless of whether it's 'right' or not, that is pretty much what happens in every conflict. There is outrage over deaths of Americans, but deaths in 'enemy' countries, civilian or otherwise, are just statistics. Americans mourn the 500 odd dead American soldiers, but not the thousands of dead Iraqi civilians?
Is there any day to mourn the thousands of Koreans or Vietnamese that died in those wars?
Yes, in their respective countries, but surely Americans should be mourning them moreso, being responsible for it?

But it's not the common soldier that makes the decisions on what an entir army does. The common soldiers were following the orders of their superiors. In that sense, they are no different than any of the soldiers on the winning side. The German army was greatly respected by the Allied forces because they were a good army, they did their duty and they gave they were willing to give their lives in the process.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

History is in the eye of the victor don't be too quick to say they were animals or that their cause was not as important as your country's, you were not there you had no idea what was being fought for. I also belive you are one of the few people who thinks this way... I think alot of people... alot... think that no matter what cause they fought for they were still people. They had family, they had children, they had a life they sacrifice for the cause they belived in just as strongly as the allied troops. If you look at that way the causes may be diffrent but the soilders are the same no matter what side they are on. You should remember them all because they are all equal in their fight. No matter what they fought for.


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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?

What part of "Ahh well, officily "no comment"."
do you not uderstand. I was joking! I know that for most part the German was just doing thier job, and wern't Natzies! Try READING my posts before you critiqe them! It might take a whole 2 seconds to finish it and think about what I said past the first sentance! Gimmie a break! Grrrr... (/endrant)

You know Obi, you really should make a stronger attempt to use better spelling and sentence structure. It makes your comments sound more ignorant when you type them the way you do.

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I don't want your signature on the same page as mine. It's talking to my signature, and making it feel bad about itself.

Ha ha, as if you're one to talk.

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Ω of 14

Well we are commemerating the Nazi's with our own breed of grammer ones.

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?

Well, we are commemorating the Nazis with our own breed of grammar ones.

why the hell do you guys care so much about how one types? its like making a big deal over how one plays basketball.

If they're decent at it, why fuss about it? if its to the point where you can't read that ****, then I can understand but god damn, ya'll should go work for the Princeton Review or somethin...

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My Life.
My Tracks.

Heh, I like a lot of you are saying "well, a lot of those soldiers weren't actually Nazis, they were just forced to fight".
Hitler unified a depressed, dejected Germany, Hitler gave the average German national spirit, he made them proud and he made them angry and he gave them a reason to do things. The Treaty of Versailles after the first World War required Germany to pay a ridiculous amount (ten billion dollars or something like that), which basically destroyed Germany's economy. A lot of people saw the Jews as being responsible for this, as the WZO had been the reason America joined the war and they had a lot of interest in the post-war discussions. Hitler didn't create the anti-semitic feeling in Germany, he just harnassed it and channeled it. And he did so spectacularly as he was an amazing public speaker, and used techniques that modern politicans are catching on to using, Tony Blair especially so. Even if you don't understand German, you will still be struck by the furious emotion that Hitler displays in his speeches.
Hitler didn't oppress a nation to do his bidding, Hitler rode the wave of public opinion. It was only as the war progressed that he began to lose support, but most of his soldiers were Nazis through and through.

Hitler, through Goebbles, controlled the german media with an iron fist. I don't see how that treatment of free speech can be viewed as anything other than oppression. There was no opposition, it wasn't allowed. He may have rode a wave of public opinion, but it was through his own manipulations that the wave gained such enormous momentum. Another reason he was such an effective public speaker was that it wasn't like there were any other voices to listen to. I don't doubt that many German soldiers were squarely behind Hitler, but oppression had it's role in that fact too.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1, 2 & 3 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Halt the continual comments regarding grammar, spelling and punctuation usage. If you have an issue with the way a member types, simply skip his or her posts rather than make a huge deal out of it and ruin the thread while you're at it.

Thanks. And guess what? I put that through a spell checker just to be sure. Verdict? All good, except for "usage", my bad

Sentence Fragment - Consider Revising.

Hitler was democratically elected, though.