This is unbelievably disgusting to me.

Remember kids, quantity over quality.

for those that decieded to read it. the army standards are still upheld, the drill sergants just don't yell as much.

I'm all for the idea in some senses - sure, break the kids in gently, but ultimately there has got to be that hardening that turns you from an ordinary man/woman into a conditioned soldier less inclined to question orders or their job. You can't be soft on soldiers the whole time, it's an inherently hard life becuase so is fighting for your survival and then your country.

However, having been subject to the British equivalent, the PTI, I can confirm it's an unpleasant experience to get an earful and be pushed to a ridiculous extreme. We were all subject to such treatment before being sent on an underground assault course, and I was just so stressed out and suffering from claustrophobia in the tunnels in the end that I blacked out and woke up in hospital having had treatment for severe shock.

So yeah, be soft, particularly on the younger recruits, but at the end of the day there has got to come a time where things get a little tougher.

Between this and the new 18-month enlistment option, I'm looking forward to killing privates that weren't weeded out who should have been...

No yelling? Good luck getting them to listen.

Which, btw, defeats half the purpose of basic training. One half is being physically fit and knowing how to be a soldier. The other half is dealing with stress and pressure.

It's better to break someone down and rebuild them as a soldier than it is to slowly integrate the patch work of a soldier into them. And even then, that soft method is just an excuse to pass more people. As a friend of mine said when she read that "They aren't training privates, their training body bag fillers." The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war and the opposite holds true as well.

If I go through this soft basic, I'll be ashamed.

This is ****ing bull****. This is going to get people killed and I do NOT want some half assed twit who didn't do PT, who won't listen to his seniors, and who can't walk as far covering my back.

They took out the two longest pack humps. HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO GET ANYWHERE IF THEY ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO WALK? GOD DAMN!

In fact, just this monday a guy shipped to boot camp from our office. He was in the 101st airborne and he was detailing the downfalls of Army recruit training, from when he went through, and when he was stationed at Jackson ( I think). He had a huge 101st airborne tattoo so I am sure he is getting smoked right now, but hey.

Sure, there will still be the kids who were in shape before, discipline before etc. And there will be those who go on to Spec Ops fields who I have absolutely nothing bad to say about. But the regular army? DOWN THE ****HOLE. And it sucks because I can just imagine me getting called up to Iran or North Korea or wherever you please, and getting support from an Army unit and getting blown to hell because they are afraid to set up 300 yards closer and lack the ability to add. Look, it's causing run-on sentences!

Between the Army upping it's acceptance of GEDs and dropouts and loosening the requirements for a waiver of such, I don't even take anyone seriously when they tell me the Army is better than any service.

Don't get me wrong, I have a healthy respect for some soldiers. Even some in the regular army, and especially the guys in the local 19th SF. But the regular army as a whole makes my face turn red.

I've nearly torn the head off of people who say this will make things better because of less stress. Sorry, no. Stress is important to work under. That's the entire reason the Drill Instructors (sorry, Drill Sergeants for the Army) do their "Jedi Mind-****ing" as one former Drill Instructor put it to me.

This really gets me mad.

*Hums the Marine Corps Hymn*

I don't understand why we don't just send our prisoners to war. Half of them will end up in there anyways.

I think Staff Sgt. Clayton Nagel put it quite nicely in that article.

"If the privates can't handle the stress of a drill sergeant yelling at them, how will they handle the stress of bullets flying over their head? War is stressful. I think we overcorrected."

This is just another way to get more people into the military. Whether there's a news article, official announcement, or whatever, *all* branches are doing this. It's still sad that the Army just comes right out with it.

And the "age old" question has already been answered. Army basic training lasts nine weeks. How can that be harder than twelve weeks of the Marines' basic training? And I refuse to believe the Army could have harder training or higher standards.

That was my first concern, even before I read the article.

lol

Because the Army recruits do basic and then a 4 week MOS specific training course that bumps their total basic training time to 13 weeks?

And my MOS training is going to be 16 weeks. So I guess I should add that onto my boot camp?

Actually, what you are talking about is not universal. Only recruits with specific MOSs do it.

And even if they were the same length, every single person I know who has been through both has said Marine Boot Camp was harder than Army basic training, both mentally and physically.

Really, you are at Army Basic for 10 weeks and Marine Corps Boot CAmp for 13, since the first week of both is receiving and doesn't count towards your training day. It's still not a walk in the park.

That's because Marines are more specialized than the Army. Marines can integrate more common training into basic, whereas Army have a more diverse group to divide to make sure they get the necessary training. Also, on another note, Army physical fitness standards are actually tougher in running(speed per mile) up until maxing and sit ups(technically, Marines are judged on crunches) and I can't compare push ups because Marines aren't tested on those, but rather pull ups. So, I don't think it's fair to say because boot camp is longer it must be tougher than basic. In fact, the reason boot camp is longer is for more rifle training. I'd also like to note that I am not saying Army basic is harder than boot camp, but that you are drawing an unwarranted conclusion given the information. However, this is not taking into account that new soft policy in basic training. If that crap sticks, I will pissed I didn't go Marines.

Also, I'd like to note that very few Army MOS AITs are as short as 4 weeks, with the exception of some OSUT training. Though I suppose at that point it ceases to be Basic and AIT seperately.

On a totally off note:

NEWSPAPER JOURNALISTS CAN'T WRITE FOR **** ANYMORE!

Holy crap, I couldn't read half the article, it was written so poorly. Man, do they spend 20 seconds writing these things? I know deadlines are shorter and shorter, but man... 20 seconds spent on an article is too short.

[QUOTE=Kieran Horn]That's because Marines are more specialized than the Army. Marines can integrate more common training into basic, whereas Army have a more diverse group to divide to make sure they get the necessary training.[/quote]

But the Marines don't concentrate on this specialty during boot camp. There is an entire second training block (School of Infantry) that all Marines go through, which is the infantry specialty which is the Marines. While there is basic combat arms, you really learn to kick **** in SOI.



No. Marines run 3 miles with a perfect score of 100 points being an even 18:00 minutes for their PFT, while the Initial Strength Test to get in is 1.5 miles in 9:00, so exactly half. It works out to 6 minutes per mile for a perfect score.

Army PFT is 2 miles in 13:00 for a perfect score. This works out to 6.5 minutes per mile.

Army=6.5 minute mile
Marines=6 minute mile



They're called crunches, but they're really sit ups, trust me. I can do well over 100 crunches in two minutes, but the way we are required to do them by the test administrators is more like a sit up, and I can barely eek out 70 if I don't care about moving the next day. The arms must be kept against the body, and touched to the thights. Unless you have some huge thighs or forearms this results in a full situp.




Truth. Both are challenging.



More or less true.

It breaks down into this;

Marksmanship and Field Firing-109.2 hours
Physical Fitness-64 hours
The Crucible-54 hours
Close-Order Drill-45 hours
Close Combat-Training-30.5 hours
Field Training 18.75 hours
Combat Water Survival-16 hours
Core Values-15 hours

(fromhere, MCRD San Diego, Parris Island may be different slightly)

I don't have anything to compare with the army, but I too have never understood the 'longer must be harder' mentality. It is, however, harder.



I agree. When do you ship out? If you're terribly dissatisfied you can switch, but only do that if you really really want to be a Marine. If you joined for ANY other primary reason(excepting things like discipline, honor, all that, which is part of being a Marines), such as college money or job training stick with where you are. It's possible, they'll tell you it isn't, but it is.



I would weep if I had to go straight to MOS school. There is 10 days of 'leave' (read, working for the recruiters) in between Boot Camp and School of Infantry, and after SOI is MOS school, between which there is no leave. People have been in school for a year straight. But yes this is true. However, some MOSs do terrorism awareness training which is integrated into basic training, which DOES extend it to 13 weeks. But that isn't AIT.

Good luck man. Do PT on your own and you will rise above the ****birds and you should be honor grad and be meritoriously promoted easy with this new crap.

I'm all for less indoctrination.

As was already said, MOS-related training has nothing to do with the 12 week basic training. After boot camp, I went through Marine Combat Training (part of SOI) which lasts two months, and then an MOS school which lasted another two months.

[quote=Kieran Horn]That's because Marines are more specialized than the Army. Marines can integrate more common training into basic, whereas Army have a more diverse group to divide to make sure they get the necessary training.[/quote]

How are Marines more specialized and less diverse? A lot of the extra time is spent training with the M16, but it's not our specialty/MOS. Every Marine is a rifleman, and it won't change.



Well, if the training is equatable, then it would be fair to say that more training equals a harder training experience. So yes, the rifle training (if nothing else) makes it harder. Having not been to Army basic, I can't say that it's easier, but I'm willing to bet it is.

News articles are written to be understood by a broad audience, which often includes the stupid, ENGLASH impaired, and young adults.

They are to be accessable, and not insulting to the reader's level of intelligence.

WHO ARE WE TO DENY THE LESSER LEARNED FROM THE BENEFITS OF THE HERE AND NOW?

http://largecapitalletters.ytmnd.com

for rob

Yelling should be retained, yes.

Reminds me that I still have to avoid army... hmm.

So I came back to the thread in an attempt to read it and get in on the debate before it got too big... and I didn't get 2 paragraphs in before my eyes started squirting blood.

It starts out "Today," one of the BIGGEST mistakes eighth graders make. My english teachers would castrate me if I handed in an article written even similarly to that heap of idiocracy.

And you may think I'm being a grammar nazi, but I just can't READ the darn thing. When it's unreadable!

?

I mean just what I said.

But that's what basic training is.

I acknowledge that.

I'm all for less indoctrination.

That's funny. I had no trouble reading it, and my verbal iq is genius level.

MAYBLE I'LL JUST TAKE A CORKSCREW TO YOUR FACE. THAT'D FIX YAH.

But that doesn't make any sense...