I don't know what to do!

I want to learn to program, and I got started on it before and enjoyed it. But I got sidetracked and forgot about it. I was using Python, and was doing somewhat good.

I want to learn to model, and tried before in Blender. It was enjoyable, didn't go very far with that either, and did kinda meh at it.

I want to learn to edit a game EXTREMELY well. I've tried JK (don't ask about what happened. It was bad), and tried JO. Did relatively well with JO for a beginner, but I just kinda quit because it got tedious like modelling. After I get my new computer, I'm probably going to buy JA and edit that, since it's got all the new add-ons and stuff (shaders, lighting, stuff) and compiles won't take 20 minutes for a simple room with a relatively nice compile.

So what should I do? They all have their advantages, and with summer coming up I figure I could either:

A. Master Python, it's 3 months of nothing but free time and mastering one language will give me a better understanding of programming altogether and help me work my way up the chain, hopefully to C++ sometime in highschool.

B. Get good at modelling, or atleast good by a summer's learning standards

C. Edit my *** off and be good enough to release some ok levels, certainly not Grismath quality, but good nonetheless. And if I go with this, what game? JA/JO, or JK?

What should I do? Poll up in a few moments.

I'm leaning towards programming, since I'm not as creative as I am mathematical/methodical when it comes to something like level editing vs. programming.

What you should do is stop switching games all the darn time. :p

EDIT JK! EDIT JK! EDIT JK!

[/fanboy]

Eh, I'd say actually work on the programming. It's something that can help you in your career in the future, since it sounds like you may be interested in doing that in the future for a living.

Why python?

Python, it's an awesome language.

I was conversing with our very own happydud one night, and started talking about programming, and I asked him what I should start with. He suggested Python, he considered it a good beginner language. So I went with Python, and occasionally he'd help me out or debug, give me a challenge program or two. I found it fun, actually.

And another upside to programming is it's something I can show my dad without him thinking "Oh great..my son's MAKING video game levels now, not just playing them." which is a good thing.

That's all, no real AMAZING reason for Python.

C++ will be infinitely more useful to you than Python, and you can easily learn the basics in a month. After that you can delve into the more...complex areas. If you're going to program, do that.

As for editing, I suggest the UT2k4 engine or the Doom 3 engine. UT2k4 is just...stupidly easy to edit, especially if you get the DVD version with all the tutorials. Doom 3 is just widespread. No reason to waste time on the Quake 3 engine if you're just starting out.

And modelling, don't sell yourself short with Blender. Use GMax, the version of Maya that comes with UT2k4, or something like that. You'll be able to do more with those, even if it's only the free versions.

How did I know that a "Go outside, you young child" post (in this case, poll edit) would be on there?

I am NOT going to do only this the entire summer, we have about 5 - 10 acres of stick covered ground that needs the sticks picked up and then mowed, and I hope to clean out and spruce up our woods so I can paintball in them this coming fall.

Instead of editing say JO or JA, I would go with Yoshi and say try some Doom3 editing. If you're wanting mapping, the Doom3 inbuilt editor is basically the same sort of system as the GTK Radiant. Although a different system, UT2k4 would probably be a wise move too, mostly because it's rather simple and there are masses of things to use for reference [or so I've been told, I don't actually know.]

I'd stay away from JO/JA as if you release some stuff for something else it'll be much more likely for people to actually have an interest. JA/JO editing is pretty much dead.

Ill put in a bit for Perl. Its not Python, but, err, well, thats probably its biggest advantage.


Did anyone else read that as Monty Python?

actually, gbk, I read that as Monty Python as well...even after I wrote it.

And I'll consider DooM3/UT2k4, but that's going to require my new computer (hopefully just a few weeks away)

You know what I voted for. :p

Actually, your current comp could probably run UT2k4 if it could run JO

I actually own UT2k4, and it does run.

But JO and 2k4 both run at a solid 20 - 30 FPS, lower if there's a real big firefight going on.

Not suitable for editing the games well.

Eh. K :p

I'd say go with 2k4, but it's my game of choice. Doesn't mean I'm any good at it though.

Just whatever you decide to do, keep everything. You might just get inspiration to do whatever down the line.

I'm not sure how UT does it's level creation, but if the levels need to compile (versus a .gob file which requires no time consuming compiling, if I remember right) then if I make a relatively nice level with a somewhat good compile, it's gonna take forEVER. A nice simple map I made (Zell can attest to this) using a nice compile in Radiant for JO took 45 minutes or so to compile.

Nicer computer would speed this up, and make editing easier since it won't take 45 minutes to test my level.

yes, yes i did


GO OUTSIDE

I don't think you understand, GBK. He wants to learn programming not shell scripting.

I'm gonna take this in another direction and suggest C#. It has the same basic grammar and concepts as C++, but you don't need to micro-manage memory and pointers. It's an excellent first language.

Has to compile. All new engines do this. It's worth it, though.

The thing is, though, that the lower level you work first, the easier concurrent language theories will be to pick up. That's my experience at least.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Has to compile. All new engines do this. It's worth it, though.[/QUOTE]

Serious Engine doesn't compile. Seriouse Engine=sex. Unfortunately, Croteam doesn't seem eager to release Sed2.

And Zloc, you should learn to program, and teach yourself a musical instrument on the side. The ladies won't know what to think. Geek, or rockstar?

Note: New. :p

Learning to program will get you places, learning to edit video games really won't. Master python

Tell that to the people who made Red Orchestra. And CS. And DoD.

In regards to UT compiling... unless you've got a tonne of BSP, static meshes, intensive lights and bot apples, it won't be beard-growingly long. Generally the longest parts are raytracing and path building.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Tell that to the people who made Red Orchestra. And CS. And DoD.[/QUOTE]


That's a couple in a field of tens, or even hundreds of thousands. Programming is a solid base, and can always lead to being in one of those great mod groups that needs a solid programmer, but even if it doesn't work out, you still have something to fall back on.

And tell that to professional game mappers, and modellers, and texturers.

Really, there's a huge field for people who are good at mapping and pretty much everything that has to do with gaming. No need to discourage him. It's true that modders rarely ever see their mods go commercial, but the good ones often get spots on professional production teams.

Guilty

My vote goes for that. Watch monty python. You'll feel better for it.

You're missing the point. If you enjoy programming (Which he said he did), that's the field you should go into. Behind every one of those mappers and texture artists in a big video game design company, there are solid programmers behind them to make the things they design work. And if you don't get into those design houses (Which are notoriously difficult to get into), you still have a solid base to fall back on. If your only work you are submitting to companies is a UT2k4 map, and you don't get a job there, you're stuck.

You've got too narrow a view--if you're going to learn to map, it's not just going to be how to map in UT2k4. You're going to learn basics of design, architecture, and texturing. You'd probably present maps from many many different games with varied themes and whatnot. Not to mention some concept sketches. Same with modelling.

Yeah, you have something solid to fall back on with programming, and I'm not saying don't encourage him to do it. Just don't discourage him to do anything else. Each person has their role to play, and regardless what you think, there aren't as many mappers/artists/modellers in the industry as is needed, especially these days. Whereas it used to take hours, maybe a few days to make a map, now you have bigger, more detailed and varied maps needing to be created in roughly the same amount of time. This requires more workers. For example, look at ET:QW. Each map has one GIANT texture for the ground--nothing repeats. That's what we're going to start seeing in games from now on.

It's just from what I'm reading of what he said, he doesn't seem very excited about modeling at all. He quit blender, Radiant, JED, because it got tedious and boring. However, he seemed genuinely excited and interested in programming.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get a job in the game industry, in fact, I know some really talented people that will probably make it pretty far, but he just doesn't seem very interested in modeling at all.

Everything gets tedious and boring at some point. Making your first program that computes five numbers in 10 different ways in C++ is an accomplishment. Troubleshooting a gigantic project because you have numerous memory leaks and graphical errors is not.

Depends. The majority of game development teams are level designers and modellers. If he plans on doing something other than game design, then, yes, programming is good.

However, learn something newer than Jedi Knight. Most new games use brush editing; Jedi Knight does not.

Alright, so maybe I did present a somewhat useless poll, since I did say I enjoyed programming the most.

And Yoshi, I thoroughly appreciate you trying to show me what can be accomplished with mapping or modelling, and other such things. I enjoyed making my JO maps, it just took so long for certain things, or some things just didn't come out right that it royally pissed me off a few times.

Modelling is a different story. I sat down on afternoon and followed a tutorial step by step, and got a nice little stick-man type person. It was kinda fun, but I didn't really know what I was doing, and kinda quit before I got into the real meat of it.

A downfall I have in mapping and modelling is that I'm VERY bad at drawing. This means placing vertexes to make an outline of something, or planning out level concepts is extremely hard.

I can see where you're coming from, and appreciate that. What I think I'll do is learn Python and maybe some basic C++ during the summer, and do a little UT mapping on the side, just to get used to doing it in case I do end up in a position where that would come in handy. I'm assuming being able to program well, and show a bit of experience in mapping programs would be good on a resume` (spelling?) at a game-making company, but that's not my goal. My goal is to get a nice job involving computers (not a tech, real messing with computers) that may or may not involve video games (note that this is thinking to the future).

Heck, maybe if I get my butt into gaming after I get this new rig and become an expert at a widely-used language such as C++ and some basic editing skills, I could end up in a good mod team, which would also look good to companies as well.

But right now, I'm just needing to focus on the summer, not 5 years in the future. I think I'll go with Python this summer, and after Python MAYBE C++ (or something related).

But continue this debate, I enjoy hearing a nice arguement, which this looks to be shaping into.

Couple things...

1) Do C++. Or at least C. Seriously, Python is such a high level language...it'll be harder to learn C++ after learning Python than it will be to learn Python after learning C++.

2) Don't look to the future. You're not even in High School yet are you? Seriously. I don't know exactly what I want to be yet, and I'm a Senior. I'm sure many college students here could say the same.

3) Python is based off of C/C++. Just saying.

4) Likely enough, in the future you'll be using something with .NET...C# probably. Microsoft definitely has that much going for it. So if you really want to look to the future, just learn C#.

here is what you can do with your summer...


GET A JOB

oh wait... you're too young... go play with the other kids your age

You should go backpacking. Try to find a trail that takes you to elevation, its much more spectacular. You forget your fatigue when you reach a pass, and the view is gorgeous. However, as I understand you live in illinois (read that in the weather thread) and as far as I can see from the topographical maps i have seen, there is no substantial elevation in your area... Come out to the Cascades!!! It is absolutely beautiful out here. Love it...

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]The thing is, though, that the lower level you work first, the easier concurrent language theories will be to pick up. That's my experience at least.[/QUOTE]Manually writing asynchronous code has a limited lifetime. IBM is writing a compiler that will automatically generate multithreaded code for Cell, and with quad-core Intel processors around the corner we'll likely see a similar feature in future versions of ICC. By the time he's advanced enough in C++ to write multithreaded code we'll have C++ compilers to do it for us.

I wouldn't be too worried about that.

I wasn't talking about the actual functionality of writing ASM, I was talking about the experiences with it helping you grasp more complex concepts. That much I know me and many other programmers have found helpful. Working with low level code helps you understand high level code better.

Also, IBM even said the best coding jobs for the Cell will manually manage every thread. That's what's going to get the extra juice pumped out of it. I guarantee games like Gran Turismo 6 which strive for the best of the best of everything will have that kind of coding done. GT5 is just being pushed out the door as a flagship game I'm sure though.