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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Rotary engine and IC engine just had a baby
Rotary engine and IC engine just had a baby
2006-04-25, 10:21 PM #1
This is amazing. With people learning to create there own diesel fuel using veggie oil, I'd certainly take one of these babies. Could you imagine putting 2 of these in your car?

Quote:
“Massive Yet Tiny” engine promises big things
Angel Labs has developed a new type of internal combustion engine known as the “Massive Yet Tiny” engine. It “has the potential to replace all the existing internal combustion engines and jet engines,” according to the inventor. It reportedly has a power to weight ratio 40 times higher than a regular internal combustion engine. A 14-inch, 150-pound MYT would reportedly have the same power as a 32 cylinder diesel engine — putting out 858 horsepower. Video and more info after the jump…



Below is Angel Labs’ official explanation of the technology:

http://www.angellabsllc.com/


The prototype has a 14 inch diameter and is 14 inches long. It weighs 150lbs. There are only 26 moving parts, 31 parts total. The first prototype uses diesel or biodiesel for fuel. Through two revolutions of its crankshaft, the ME firing cycle is equivalent to a 32 cylinder reciprocating engine, that is, it fires 32 times. As a result, its displacement is equivalent to an 848 cubic inch reciprocating engine, despite its compactness. This displacement comparison is derived as follows: (3.1416*(3)(3)*3.75)/4*32 = 848 cubic inches, with a 3″ bore and 3.75″ stroke, four stroke cycle and thirty two firings. The design is also modular. Additional units can be connected to increase power. The ME is actually a large (extremely efficiently organized) displacement internal combustion engine; therefore its high horsepower output. Moreover, with the high number of cylinders firing in close order, a high number of pulses are generated for high torque, but without the friction and parasitic losses discussed below.

At 150lbs, the basic ME design needs only to produce 3,000 hp from 848 cubic inches to produce a 20 to 1 power to weight ratio. (We are assuming less than 4 hp per cubic inch of displacement. Racing engines based on conventional design perform up to 5+ hp per cubic inch of displacement with Super/Turbo Charge. With Normally Aspirated, it will generate minimum 850 horse powers.) To our knowledge, only the latest jet engine has finally attained a 20 to 1 power to weight ratio. By replacing the rear cover of the ME and connecting another ME chamber assembly (adding two inches in length and little additional weight) the ME now becomes a 64 cylinder engine with 1,695 cubic inches raising the power to weight ratio up to 40 to 1.

Since the ME lacks the 80% of the parts normally found in a reciprocating internal combustion engine that is responsible for high friction and parasitic losses, this normally dormant horsepower is now available and would increase the total deliverable output of the ME.

Normally, in a compression ignition (diesel) engine, combustion begins @ TDC (Top Dead Center) @ 0 degree crankshaft position. The expanding gases push the piston down on the power stroke, rotating the crankshaft 180 degrees. The piston then returns to TDC pushing the exhaust at the exhaust stroke, rotating the crankshaft another 180 degrees. This is the burning time in a standard engine, a total of 360 degrees duration.

On a dynamometer, an engine’s combustion temperatures is typically measured 2″ from the exhaust ports, on the premise that the combustion temperature is very close to exhaust temperature. This is due to the zero degree duration @ TDC and the 360 degrees running duration of a standard engine. However, if @TDC, the piston is allowed to stay for a longer duration, it will burn a greater percentage of the fuel and air mixture in the combustion chamber until oxygen or fuel theoretically runs out at the end of the power stroke, thereby totally completing the combustion process and drastically lowering the exhaust temperature at the end of the exhaust stroke.

The ME design permits the piston dwell @TDC to be adjustable and the prototype ME is currently set at approximately 12 degrees of the crankshaft rotation, thereby approaching the perfection of a complete burn of all fuel. Its exhaust gases are much cooler.

As a result:
More energy is harnessed for the same amount of fuel and air input.
There is less left over fuel to continue to burn at the exhaust stroke.
There is less waste and pollution

The higher compression ratios used in diesel engines result in greater thermal expansion of gases in the cylinder. The end result is a high percentage of fuel energy being converted into useful power. (When running the ME with Bio fuels, the same fuel is used to lubricate the crankcase.) In the ME design, a compression ratio as high as 70:1 can be attained due to the absence of the restrictive reciprocating components. Specifically:

The combustion chambers in the ME have no design limitations due to the absence of valves. (The internal combustion engine is an air pump. Airflow through intake and exhaust ports are normally restricted by valves. The ME has no valve –just open ports with no restriction. Air flow action is one way.)

There are no odd or brand new parts within the cylinder. All the parts are proven designs used in reciprocating engines.
The entire engine acts as a heat sink and a radiator. It is both air and oil cooled.
There is no thrust loading on piston skirts.
Pistons do not touch the cylinder walls, only the rings do.
Pistons travel only the same direction. No reciprocation, only stop and go.
There is high rpm potential for all of these reasons.
There are no cylinder heads, no cam shaft, no valves (the ME is equivalent to the bottom end of a reciprocating engine).
Intake compression and power stroke and exhaust stroke events are happening all at the same time, so there are no load strokes.
Attachment: 11536/apr24-myt_1.jpg (50,351 bytes)
I can't think of anything to put here right now.
2006-04-25, 10:26 PM #2
awesome.
2006-04-25, 10:40 PM #3
Those silly people, inventing a new engine... didn't you know all you had to do was put racing stripes and a spoiler on your car to make it more powerful? Jeez, think of all the time they could have saved.

Seriously though, imagine the potential for this thing (if it works as well as claimed, anyways). Personal jetpack, here we come!
Stuff
2006-04-25, 10:44 PM #4
Now all we need to do is find a way to make it out of lightweight polymers and we're golden.
2006-04-25, 11:06 PM #5
Combine the engine with this:
http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/0,70702-0.html?tw=wn_index_4
and we may just have something quite usefull.
Marsz, marsz, Dąbrowski,
Z ziemi włoskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Złączym się z narodem.
2006-04-25, 11:10 PM #6
Originally posted by Ric_Olie:
Combine the engine with this:
http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/0,70702-0.html?tw=wn_index_4
and we may just have something quite usefull.

More like McDonald's.

What if we were saved from our oil crisis by fast foods?
2006-04-25, 11:13 PM #7
Liposuction clinics are an as-yet untapped energy source.
2006-04-25, 11:59 PM #8
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Liposuction clinics are an as-yet untapped energy source.

"Excuse me. But can I have your...fat?"
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-04-26, 12:05 AM #9
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Liposuction clinics are an as-yet untapped energy source.


Yeah, good idea. Combine that with a form of fusion and we'll have all the energy we'll ever need.

Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.
Stuff
2006-04-26, 1:45 AM #10
That certainly sounds very cool.

Still, I would rather read about fuel cell technology breakthroughs. No matter how much you tweak and enhance internal combustion engines, in the end they are ancient, wasteful technology, nothing more.
Frozen in the past by ICARUS
2006-04-26, 2:26 AM #11
well these new engines are more advanced and efficient at least

But yes, i want to see different forms of fuel cells used.
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2006-04-26, 4:04 AM #12
I was listening to a late night radio show, and some guy was claiming he made somekind of ... adapter for any engine which would allow the engine to use literally anything liquid as fuel. Coke? Sure. Gotta go? Might as well relieve yourself in your tank. The funny part was, the 'government' was making him keep the designs secret. :rolleyes: He claims that you could built this wonder of acheivement from things found at a local hardware store.
Got a permanent feather in my cap;
Got a stretch to my stride;
a stroll to my step;
2006-04-26, 9:39 AM #13
Wow, that's cool.

Seems like there are a lot of strong developments for the future but it will take a long while before they reach commercial levels in the states.
2006-04-26, 9:45 AM #14
Originally posted by Sol:
I was listening to a late night radio show, and some guy was claiming he made somekind of ... adapter for any engine which would allow the engine to use literally anything liquid as fuel. Coke? Sure. Gotta go? Might as well relieve yourself in your tank. The funny part was, the 'government' was making him keep the designs secret. :rolleyes: He claims that you could built this wonder of acheivement from things found at a local hardware store.

You were listening to Coast to Coast AM (w/ George Noory) weren't you.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-04-26, 11:12 AM #15
Because god knows JG was.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-26, 11:15 AM #16
Mmmmmm the thing is this will probably just fade away. You always hear about the next great breakthrough in technology but then it's never heard form again.
2006-04-26, 11:41 AM #17
Is this thing any more efficient though? That's the only thing that would really get people using this engine. Even the mazda rotary really isn't any better than standard V engines.
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2006-04-26, 11:48 AM #18
This is poppycock. I'm waiting for the perpetual energy machine from CaptBewil.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2006-04-26, 12:11 PM #19
Anyone else think of this comparison when they saw the pic of the engine?
Attachment: 11538/eu_bg.jpe (30,210 bytes)
The tips at the end of shoelaces are called "aglets". Their true purpose is sinister.
2006-04-26, 12:32 PM #20
The earth *is* a perpetual motion machine. :p As close as we're gonna get, anyway.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-26, 12:58 PM #21
I'd rather see hydrogen powered vehicles just so we can make the oil companies beg for mercy... greedy bastards. But that is a rather impressive motor.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2006-04-26, 1:33 PM #22
Interesting engine to say the least, current internal combustion engines don't burn the fuel at anywhere near a decent enough efficiency.

Personally I want to see this thing in action over long periods of time before I'll take it seriously; the rotary engine used in the RX8 is theoretically at least supposed to be more efficient than normal combustion engines but in reality only just equals it.

The same could end up being true of this engine, although it looks very promising.

Still I'd rather move away from burning oil but until that becomes a reality it would be better to burn the oil in a more efficient manor.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2006-04-26, 2:27 PM #23
Originally posted by Echoman:
This is poppycock. I'm waiting for the perpetual energy machine from CaptBewil.


LMAO
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2006-04-26, 4:07 PM #24
Originally posted by Z@NARDI:
I'd rather see hydrogen powered vehicles just so we can make the oil companies beg for mercy... greedy bastards. But that is a rather impressive motor.



They'll just laugh, because it'll take more gas at the hydrogen plant to separate the hydrogen.
2006-04-26, 4:24 PM #25
Originally posted by Freelancer:
The earth *is* a perpetual motion machine. :p As close as we're gonna get, anyway.



True, very true. In fact if there were some good way to tap the rotational energy of the Earth, we could be powering everything with it and not even notice the slowdown in the rotation.

Originally posted by Wikipedia:
As an example, let us calculate the rotational kinetic energy of the Earth. As the Earth has a period of about 23.93 hours, it has an angular velocity of 7.29×10-5 rad·s-1. Assuming that the Earth is perfectly spherical and uniform in mass density, it has a moment of inertia, I = 9.72×1037 kg·m2. Therefore, it has a rotational kinetic energy of 2.58×10e29 J.

Part of it can be tapped using tidal power. This creates additional friction of the two global tidal waves, infinitesimally slowing down Earth's angular velocity ω. Due to conservation of angular momentum this process transfers angular momentum to the Moon's orbital motion, increasing its distance from Earth and its orbital period (see tidal locking for a more detailed explanation of this process).


I haven't checked the math myself, but 2.58×10e29 J is many orders of magnitude larger than all the energy ever used by the human race.
Stuff
2006-04-26, 4:33 PM #26
Originally posted by oSiRiS:
Is this thing any more efficient though? That's the only thing that would really get people using this engine. Even the mazda rotary really isn't any better than standard V engines.


Thats the thing though, I don't care if it gets 5 mpg. With the ability to produce your own biodiesel fuel, if you can make an efficient engine with performance, easy to repair, etc. I will make the damn fuel myself and save $$.
I can't think of anything to put here right now.
2006-04-26, 5:04 PM #27
Originally posted by kyle90:
True, very true. In fact if there were some good way to tap the rotational energy of the Earth, we could be powering everything with it and not even notice the slowdown in the rotation.

Isn't tidal energy one way (albeit quite inefficient) of tapping the Earth and the moon's rotational energy?

I'd like to see how long this lasts, in terms of reliabilty of part longevity. The rotary engine has a hard time with the dynamic seals wearing out and causing the engine to become very inefficient.
Also looking at the animation of how the combustion chambers expand and expel exhaust, I'm wondering how the stop the expansion of the gas from pushing equally in the opposite direction on the shaft? Either they run some sort of ratchet system that has surprisingly low friction or they use a starter motor and rely on a fly wheel to provide resistance to motion in the opposite direction (which would add quite a lot to the engine's weight). I may of course be missing some other glaringly obvious way of getting around this problem.

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