here

some canadian doctors are starting to refuse to treat patients if they smoke, drink, do drugs or are over weight.

according to the article, it impedes treatment if the patient refuses to do their part to get and stay healthy.

i agree!

I'm all for it, especially regarding surgeries. People need to to what they can to reduce their own risk.

I also agree with this.

Go Canada!

I'm all for restricting or denying medical treatment to people who willingly risk their health. If you can't be bothered to look after yourself why should my taxes go towards paying your health care costs?

Darwin approves!

Wait.. how overweight? Like "a few extra pounds" or "morbidly obese"?

Doesn't matter for you.

Fatty.

>.>

How about instead of flat out denying them treatment, they help them to stop whatever self-destructive behavior that they might be doing? Why should their hard-earned tax money, money that should go to their care, be washed down the drain because they have a problem? Who knows the factors that go into their problems? What is it, 80% of overweight people are overweight because of genetics? Jeez, get a grip. Instead of denying them, they should say, "We'll we are going to help you out, but in return you have to help yourself". Not, "Nope, you're fat".

You can't just be, "stop drinking or don't expect help", or "If you keep getting loaded we won't help you", it's really not as easy as that. I don't know anything about canadian rehabilitation centers and getting signed up, but cleaning up isn't as easy as "Get clean". Being on both extremes won't help anything, you can't flat out deny or unendingly give medical treatment, you have to try and faciliate both sides in the best view of the patients health.

But the doctors do that. They tell these people that they need to stop smoking before the surgery, or that they need to lose x number of pounds. The patients fail to meet the pre-surgery requirements so the doctors call it off.

it's tough for me to comment on that. i don't have an addictive personality. i can take or leave anything anytime.

i know it's a long article but if you read it it does state that doctors refuse to treat patients who won't help themselves after repeatedly telling their patients that their behaviour is retarding their recovery. it speaks specifically about a smoker who refuses to quit and over weight people refusing to lose weight.
it also talks about a study done showing how people treat fat people differently from the get-go. fat people are discriminated against and are even thought ot be lazy and stupid without even having them say or do anything.

i very rarely ask for proof of a claim here (or anywhere) but i want to see the stats on this so called 80% genetic fat. maybe i'm one of the discriminators but i think it's more like 10%. of the fat people i know, 80% complain while stuffing thier mouths with take out and potato chips while claiming they excersize by taking their dogs out for a 10 minute leisurely stroll.

[QUOTE=Darth Evad]it's tough for me to comment on that. i don't have an addictive personality. i can take or leave anything anytime.

[/QUOTE]

Don't you smoke?

Ha ha, I fell right into Evad's carefully laid trap! I LOSE! HAHAHA!

"Because of genetics" is bit of a throwaway term. Only a very small percent of cases of obesity is directly caused by genetics (from memory ~2%). Your genes may predispose you to a certain weight, but the major influencing factor is lifestyle.

Human genes haven't changed much in the last 10,000 years and they certainly haven't changed in the last 50 years. Obesity however has increased in the same time period (watch some footage from the 70s and you'll notice that most people are slim). The changing factor is the ready availability of energy dense food and the lack of physical activity.

An interesting exercise is to compare the rates of "lifestyle disease" between western and hunter-gatherer populations eg the Massai. Type 2 diabetes has an incidence of 5-10% in western countries. In populations like the massai, the incidence is ~0-1% (which is almost always genetically based). Human genes aren't all that different between populations, but lifestyle is.

No one is saying it's easy to lose weight or trying to discriminate against anyone, the docs are trying to get people to responsibility for their own health.

Run is like Doctor House or something.

yep. cig and pot. but i can and have quit on a whim.
of the 10 years i've been smoking cigarettes i've quit about 5 times for a total of about 5 years. each time has been cold turkey. the last time i quit was for over 2 years, and the reason was i just wasn't going to pay the tax hike the government imposed. so i just stopped buying them.
i know and partially understand people who can't quit. they just physically can't quit.
if the doctor told me to stop 'cause it was impeding his treatment of my health, i'd quit.

the bottom line is i like it so i do it. it's nice to have a smoke on the way home from work or after a late snack while watching tv.

[QUOTE=Darth Evad]here

some canadian doctors are starting to refuse to treat patients if they smoke, drink, do drugs or are over weight.

according to the article, it impedes treatment if the patient refuses to do their part to get and stay healthy.

i agree![/QUOTE]

Anyone who does these vices, then, will be weeded out by diseases and injuries! Brilliant!

There are never any fat people in concentration camp pictures. Being genetically predisposed to something != being that way by default. Some people's bodies hoard fat better or have better metabolisms.

I don't think a concentration camp comparison is all that good since they were starving and all. But yes, a predisposition doesn't automatically mean you will be fat. But even then, most people who are fat contribute to their situation more than they help it.

No kidding. I once saw this fat guy who visited our house a while ago cut himself a pie piece half the size of the pie. Being 6 at the time, he become an inspiration to me and for several years forward I aspired to that level of sugar intake. But, alas, Mother dictated that it was not to be.

?

If you quit and then started up again, it sort of seems like you didn't actually quit...

What Tracer said. Quitting 5 times in 5 years tells me you haven't succesfully quit yet.

2 YEARS LATER

How about instead of flat out denying fat people treatment, we deny them treatment and make them walk everywhere?

IN SOVIET CANADA, A PORK-ROAST A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTORS AWAY! EH?

Or better yet make them walk on a tread mill eight hours a day and produce electricity.

The health care system in Canada covers organ transplants too?

Yes.

Adam Corolla was plotting to do that with all the gyms in the US. It was a joke, of course, but it would solve the energy crisis. :p

Well, not really. Say you've got a hundred million people going around the clock producing 100 watts. Okay so that's 10 gigawatts which is a lot but not really.

DOn't question my assumtions about the numbers involved here.
Yeah I know you're joking.

Oh I know it wouldn't make much of a dent, but it would be funny as hell.

Kyle, baby, you know I love you.

Just learn to let a joke like that go sometimes though...don't bring all that science in here all the time!

Okay now imagine you could get all six billion people in the world going all day producing 200 watts.... well okay that's pretty much impossible but it's for the sake of science. Then all of a sudden you've got 1.2 terawatts which is a crapload of power.

Of course one would be far better off to take the food you're feeding to these treadmill-people and burn it directly. It'd be like 10 times more efficient at least. Anyways the human body can't really produce very much excess energy.

And this is why The Matrix sucks.

(I'm kidding; it's an awesome movie but it has a stupid premise)

Well, I thought doctors should cure unhealthyness :p

But that aside, I think that would be really cool.

1.21 jigawatts?!

Don't Canadian doctors have to take a Hippocratic Oath or something?

omgjigawatts!!!

screw you canadian doctors.

Smoking doesnt make me unhealthy.
Carbon Monoxide does.

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