Now i'm not religious, nor do I wish to debate anything (although I know a religious thread almost always ends up going that way, feel free to debate amongst yourselves).

I just have a question about religion (well, I say religion, I mean christianity, since its the only one I know anything about).

My question is this:

People pray for things, anything they want. What I want to know is, why do Christians bother with this? Do they not all believe in Gods big plan for us all? Meaning that any prayer would be useless, because the things they ask of God would not fit in with his plan for humanity.

Cheers.

I occasionally pray for money. Let there be God or not, it doesn't take much time for a pray-o-rama.

Thats just one of those things that makes no ****ing sense to me.

Well, it could be that God doesn't have every little detail planned; just the overarching view of what he wants to happen. And thus he might be willing to listen to prayers for "small" things (i.e. something that might seem like life-or-death to a person, but is insignificant next to God's plan).

But who knows, really. I don't claim to know the mind of God; hell I don't even know whether I believe in him or not.

well I don't think all people pray just to ask for something, I think a lot of the emphasis of praying is to further your connection with God or some such. And some people pray for guidance. And hey, it's kind of like a kid asking his mom for a toy. Buying the toy may not have been part of his mother's plan for him to attend Harvard and become a doctor, but it probably won't hurt the plan either, so why not? eh? maybe?

(or Kyle could just come along and say my point so much more eloquently before me. :()

It's an interesting question. The Bible says that through prayer all the wishes of your heart will be granted/made possible. This is interesting because most fundies claim that it only works when you're willing to conform to God's "plan".

As for me, even if I were going to believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing God, I wouldn't waste my time with prayer...

Prayer is a way to 'talk' to God about things and share whats going on in your life with Him. Does he already know? Yes. But he wants us to take time to spend with him, personally through an act like prayer.

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

John 16:24 Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

James 2:2-3 You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

Matthew 6:5-8 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

There are also examples in the Bible wear God changed his plans just because a human being prayed to God and asked him to do something different. Hopefully this helps you out a little bit, Mr. Stafford.

God can go to hell.

And fix the air conditioning.

Wow, that was pretty ignorant Rob.

Wow, you think I might care.

Now THAT is ignorance.

Actually God did go to hell, in a sense, because God and Jesus are One, and Jesus went to hell after He died, in order to save the souls of the saints that were trapped there. There in hell He defeated Satan, and indeed defeated Death itself when He rose from the dead.

spe: I am not familiar with specific scripture references, but God wants us to know Him, and to bring our concerns before Him. It's more for our benefit, because it shows we are relying on Him instead of ourselves.

Did he fix the AC while he was down there?

No, but this does explain why Jesus was a black man.

[QUOTE=The Mega-ZZTer]Actually God did go to hell, in a sense, because God and Jesus are One, and Jesus went to hell after He died, in order to save the souls of the saints that were trapped there. There in hell He defeated Satan, and indeed defeated Death itself when He rose from the dead.[/QUOTE]


Did he fix the AC though?

Rob > God

Well no, but He brought the saints with Him back to heaven, the AC is fine there.

Pffft, well then screw him, his saints, and his son.

lol religion

Hey, you're supposed to capitalize "Him" and "His" and "He". SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE BIG CHEESE.



http://www.mzzt.net/avatar.php?n=257&marktext='splodes

I have no respect for cheese that is not swiss.

IS YOUR GOD SWISS?

[QUOTE=The Mega-ZZTer]Hey, you're supposed to capitalize "Him" and "His" and "He". SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE BIG CHEESE.



http://www.mzzt.net/avatar.php?n=257&marktext='splodes[/QUOTE]

I'll capitalize pronouns when people all cap PENIS but only when they're talking about my PENIS.

[QUOTE=Mr. Stafford]My question is this:

People pray for things, anything they want. What I want to know is, why do Christians bother with this? Do they not all believe in Gods big plan for us all? Meaning that any prayer would be useless, because the things they ask of God would not fit in with his plan for humanity.[/QUOTE]

The assumption that prayer is pointless in light of God's plan is to assume that everything in the universe is predestined to occur. As free will is granted to man, such predestination does not exist. Praying for health, clemency, forgiveness, etc. is often a very cathartic exercise, allowing an individual to come to terms with the situations and realities of his or her life and that of those around him or her.

In this capacity, if nothing more (and if you do not want to admit the possibility of divine intervention), prayer spiritually strenghtens and assures the believer, girding him or her for hardships that may ensue and creating a stronger individual for the future.

A believer ought to trust (and have faith) in God's benevolence... I suspect that quite often, people pray only when in dark clouds hang over them or their loved ones. In the event of natural disasters, diseases, death, etc., people look to the divine to try to get some sort of 'justice' and cannot understand why a benevolent God would allow such things to happen. Then, when bad events do happen despite prayer, people feel somehow betrayed by God. However, the faithful ought not be 'fair weather friends', turning to God in prayer only when they feel they need him to descend from on high and make the world right. Instead, faith is a more gradual yet constant and steadfast process.

Just some thoughts.

What is he? A freakin' Air Conditioner repair man? Don't think so, is he certified? Doubtful, since no university would be likely to accept a Jew whose the son of a carpenter.

He did get a nice tan, and hence, Jesus WAS A BLACK MAN.

If God knows the future. And God cannot be wrong.

Then only the ILLUSION of free will exists.

That's pretty much my opinoin, Rob. I never understood the idea of "Prayer Requests" in our Bible class. More of a current events thing, isn't it? I mean, does it matter how many people pray for something?

If gewtting a tan makes you black then I should be attracting light and matter with such force that neither would escape my event horizon by now.

Tanning causes skin cancer.

Jesus must have had skin cancer.

auto-heal

If the choices that I will make are set, but they're the choices I'd pick anyways even if they weren't set, why the hell should I care?

BIBLE EXCERPT: "Where two or more are gathered in His name, He is there." Something like that.

Who said you should care?

I'm telling an entire group of people they are wrong.

Jesus is a n00b? Or did he just spam Force Heal?

No need to spam, He haxored. Wish I could help you Stafford, I myself am confused by this. I guess the real reason is that God just wants us to talk to Him :/

Even Jesus wouldn't spend his time on a pile of crap like JK.

Jesus seems more like a Half-Life man if you ask me.

I mean, Gordon has a beard and so does he. Jesus digs.

Jesus digs.

Morgan has a beard

Yeah.

But he didn't come back from the dead.

Yeah, I guess so. Makes sense, since Jesus would probably prefer Grenades to some horribly hard to control Thermal Detonators.

That, and Jesus always seemed to enjoy "Stickin' it to the man," and killing the Marines like a badass scientist and then escaping is definitely stickin' it to the man.

Nothing is "Stickin' it to a man" like the rail detonator is.

Jesus doesn't like literals. He enjoys metaphors, duh. Look at all the parables he told.

"Dear Buddha: this Christmas I want a pony..."