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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Warrant required, knock on door optional
12
Warrant required, knock on door optional
2006-06-15, 9:37 AM #1
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/15/scotus.search.ap/index.html

This makes me very nervous. If it's the middle of the night, and some people break down my door and charge in with shotguns, it's possible I might get the wrong idea and blast them with my 45. If they clearly identified themselves as police officers (and no, a white sign on their back doesn't count), it would be a different story. The old law said they had to knock and clearly identify themselves. I wonder how much evidence was really lost in the 30 seconds or so it takes to identify yourself and then break down the door :(
2006-06-15, 9:50 AM #2
Geez, you Americans probably sleep with your weapons.

Oh wait.

:)

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind barging into houses without knocking the door.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-06-15, 10:04 AM #3
I'm with Brian on this one, just breaking down the door unannounced is inviting those that have them to treat the police as intruders, which is some states is legal to use force against. The could turn out to be a very bad decision.
$do || ! $do ; try
try: command not found
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor (X-wing, TIE, XvT/BoP, XWA)
2006-06-15, 10:19 AM #4
Yeah I totally agree. Being a political moderate myself, I think the police should alway knock first and announce themselves, however if they feel it is a LAST RESORT, they should barge into a home.

In other words, it should be like using a gun. Only as a last resort and only as with the outmost due cause, which would make the situation very rare.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

-G Man
2006-06-15, 10:21 AM #5
I think it should depend on the situation and whether the police have to knock on the door should be stipulated in the warrant. There are going to be cases where it's best for the police to just bust down the door and storm a house. IF the police are serving a warrant where the suspect is known to be armed, then they shouldn't knock.
Pissed Off?
2006-06-15, 10:25 AM #6
Originally posted by Avenger:
I think it should depend on the situation and whether the police have to knock on the door should be stipulated in the warrant. There are going to be cases where it's best for the police to just bust down the door and storm a house. IF the police are serving a warrant where the suspect is known to be armed, then they shouldn't knock.


In that case, they should be dropping from helicopters into the windows, and tear gassing the building and such, because that's cooler :P
$do || ! $do ; try
try: command not found
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor (X-wing, TIE, XvT/BoP, XWA)
2006-06-15, 11:52 AM #7
I put $50 on the odds that an innocent person will have this happen to them and will get in a gunfight and die and or kill a police officer.
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2006-06-15, 11:56 AM #8
More likely, they'll kill one of the "intruder" cops, and the rest of the cops will gun down the guy trying to defend his family.
2006-06-15, 12:00 PM #9
Brian needs more time to try and flush his harddrive down the toilet. :)

Police: We're coming in!

Brian: Damn! It's the third flush and it still won't go down! Everything goes down by the third flush!!
"Harriet, sweet Harriet - hard-hearted harbinger of haggis."
2006-06-15, 12:17 PM #10
Meh, I'm not worried about what they'll find in my house, I'm worried about what will happen if they get a warrant against the wrong house.
2006-06-15, 12:40 PM #11
Originally posted by TwistedSoul:
I put $50 on the odds that an innocent person will have this happen to them and will get in a gunfight and die and or kill a police officer.


That's exactly what I thought would happen when I read this article. And I'm sure we're not the only ones who think this.
No sig.
2006-06-15, 12:56 PM #12
Do you think the police are idiots? They know that barging into someone's house is going to be asking for trouble. I'm sure they'll be shouting "Police!" the whole time.
2006-06-15, 1:38 PM #13
[QUOTE=Vincent Valentine]Do you think the police are idiots? They know that barging into someone's house is going to be asking for trouble. I'm sure they'll be shouting "Police!" the whole time.[/QUOTE]

That said (quoted?) I DO know some stupid cops. Luckily, I have yet to meet a stupid cop on some sort of Special Weapons entry team.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2006-06-15, 2:28 PM #14
Originally posted by Chewbubba:
Brian needs more time to try and flush his harddrive down the toilet. :)

Police: We're coming in!

Brian: Damn! It's the third flush and it still won't go down! Everything goes down by the third flush!!

A friend knows someone who has a huge collection of warez, movies, music, etc. and he has a huge electro-magnet besides his computer and a seperate power source so that it will work even if they shut down his power.
Sorry for the lousy German
2006-06-15, 3:24 PM #15
Someone's paranoid.
Pissed Off?
2006-06-15, 3:34 PM #16
Originally posted by Impi:
A friend knows someone who has a huge collection of warez, movies, music, etc. and he has a huge electro-magnet besides his computer and a seperate power source so that it will work even if they shut down his power.

It has to be a *really* powerful magnet to make the data non-recoverable. And since the military is looking into that kind of thing, I seriously doubt that guy has the capability, all he will do is slow them down and piss them off :P
$do || ! $do ; try
try: command not found
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor (X-wing, TIE, XvT/BoP, XWA)
2006-06-15, 3:36 PM #17
I definitely see where people will be concerned about this, but I doubt that it will become a common occurance -- mostly a 'special situations' deal.
woot!
2006-06-15, 3:48 PM #18
Originally posted by Impi:
A friend knows someone who has a huge collection of warez, movies, music, etc. and he has a huge electro-magnet besides his computer and a seperate power source so that it will work even if they shut down his power.


I heard that the penalty for piracy is pretty bad in Germany. And like they have people who watch the net and stuff.
"DON'T TASE ME BRO!" lol
2006-06-15, 4:02 PM #19
My 2 cents...I'm with Brian.
"The solution is simple."
2006-06-15, 4:24 PM #20
Brian, the problem with you is you can't stop whining long enough to enjoy the freedom you already have

>.>

<.<

:p
2006-06-15, 4:30 PM #21
my new plan is to barge into someones house yelling police, holding a fake badge, then claim their TV and Xbox 360 are "evidence" and seize them for maximum lulz/profit.
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2006-06-15, 4:33 PM #22
Originally posted by Brian:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/15/scotus.search.ap/index.html

This makes me very nervous. If it's the middle of the night, and some people break down my door and charge in with shotguns, it's possible I might get the wrong idea and blast them with my 45. If they clearly identified themselves as police officers (and no, a white sign on their back doesn't count), it would be a different story. The old law said they had to knock and clearly identify themselves. I wonder how much evidence was really lost in the 30 seconds or so it takes to identify yourself and then break down the door :(


You do realize that they still have to identify themselves, correct?
woot!
2006-06-15, 4:55 PM #23
While it doesn't terribly bother me, I never like it when a freedom is taken away for no good reason. Pointing to all the othere freedoms doesn't really change the fact. I'm not even talking about the slippery slope: one is enough. And to argue that it should only bother some one with something to hide doesn't make sense.

There's already place in the law for specific instances like hostage situations where surprise is necessary.

It's the same to me as the RIAA making decisions about what constitutes ownership, or TiVo placing a time limit on recorded items. What was wrong with the way it was? What made it necessary to change things at the peoples' expense?
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2006-06-15, 5:10 PM #24
[QUOTE=Bounty Hunter 4 hire]While it doesn't terribly bother me, I never like it when a freedom is taken away for no good reason. Pointing to all the othere freedoms doesn't really change the fact. I'm not even talking about the slippery slope: one is enough. And to argue that it should only bother some one with something to hide doesn't make sense.

There's already place in the law for specific instances like hostage situations where surprise is necessary.

It's the same to me as the RIAA making decisions about what constitutes ownership, or TiVo placing a time limit on recorded items. What was wrong with the way it was? What made it necessary to change things at the peoples' expense?[/QUOTE]

The several seconds possibly lost between "POLICE!" and busting through the door is a freedom?
woot!
2006-06-15, 6:01 PM #25
Finally we're starting to turn real life into what happens in the movies.
Your skill in reading has increased by 1 point.
2006-06-15, 7:14 PM #26
By "identify themselves" I'm assuming you're talking about screaming the word "police" over and over (yeah, I've seen it on cops). If I'm home and they have a warrant, they should knock on the door and give me a chance to read the warrant and see their badges. That way I can make sure they are who they say they are.
2006-06-15, 7:25 PM #27
Originally posted by JLee:
The several seconds possibly lost between "POLICE!" and busting through the door is a freedom?

quoted for truth.
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)------@%
2006-06-15, 7:38 PM #28
Originally posted by Brian:
By "identify themselves" I'm assuming you're talking about screaming the word "police" over and over (yeah, I've seen it on cops). If I'm home and they have a warrant, they should knock on the door and give me a chance to read the warrant and see their badges. That way I can make sure they are who they say they are.


And give you time to gun them in the face.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2006-06-15, 7:42 PM #29
Originally posted by Brian:
By "identify themselves" I'm assuming you're talking about screaming the word "police" over and over (yeah, I've seen it on cops). If I'm home and they have a warrant, they should knock on the door and give me a chance to flush the drugs down the toilet and get my shotgun from the closet. That way I can make sure I don't go to jail.


Fixed for the typical person in this scenario.
woot!
2006-06-15, 9:52 PM #30
Originally posted by JLee:
The several seconds possibly lost between "POLICE!" and busting through the door is a freedom?

Something brought up in the article was how what was lost is security. You can feel secure that a cop isn't going to bust down your door unexpectedly at any given moment of the day.

And the freedom is against "unreasonable search and seizure." It's very reasonable to expect an officer of the law to identify his or herself, especially since taking the time to do so will almost never compromise an investigation. Some other things to consider are: repspect and the concept of "innocent-until-proven-guilty," as well as how part of the whole badge and warrent business is to prevent officer impersonation.
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2006-06-15, 10:00 PM #31
And don't get me wrong, I'm not some nut who thinks that everyone is innocent and the cops are evil. If there's good reason to break down the door first then officers should be allowed to, and I doubt officers are going to be breaking down doors for noise complaints, and I doubt departments would tolerate that, but the laws should reflect that.

When I get a job I'm told not to do a ton of stupid things by my employer (ie: don't bring friends to hang out at work, don't do drugs ont he job), not because my employer thinks I'm stupid, but because there are stupid people.
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2006-06-16, 5:46 AM #32
I assume when they do barge in, they will be announcing "police, police"?
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2006-06-16, 6:08 AM #33
when i lived in ottawa it was called the vanier warrant. vanier was a seedy part of town where dealers and criminals lived. the cops would show up with a warrant and just kick the door down 'cause they could.
2006-06-16, 10:33 AM #34
Originally posted by Echoman:
I assume when they do barge in, they will be announcing "police, police"?

I could barge in yelling "Police! Police!"
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2006-06-16, 10:46 AM #35
Barge in yelling "Land Shark!"
"Harriet, sweet Harriet - hard-hearted harbinger of haggis."
2006-06-16, 11:09 AM #36
I'd bust in screaming, "HUNNY, I'M HOOOMMME!" and then eat the residents.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2006-06-16, 1:35 PM #37
What ever happend to:

"HEEERREEE'S JOHNNY!"

?
"The solution is simple."
2006-06-16, 1:42 PM #38
Originally posted by Brian:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/15/scotus.search.ap/index.html

This makes me very nervous. If it's the middle of the night, and some people break down my door and charge in with shotguns, it's possible I might get the wrong idea and blast them with my 45. If they clearly identified themselves as police officers (and no, a white sign on their back doesn't count), it would be a different story. The old law said they had to knock and clearly identify themselves. I wonder how much evidence was really lost in the 30 seconds or so it takes to identify yourself and then break down the door :(

I think the police realize that bursting into a private property unannounced is much more dangerous than knocking first; therefore they will still knock and only burst in when absolutely necessary.
2006-06-16, 1:46 PM #39
It depends. There are cases where storming a house and catching the people by surprise is better for everyone invovled.
Pissed Off?
2006-06-16, 1:57 PM #40
Originally posted by tofu:
I think the police realize that bursting into a private property unannounced is much more dangerous than knocking first; therefore they will still knock and only burst in when absolutely necessary.

You're giving the police way too much credit.
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