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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Choice
Choice
2006-08-18, 4:44 AM #1
Just from reading that religious debate, there was alot of discussion on freewill.
I believe choice is an illusion, and its all environmental, it may not be an illusion but everything could be calculated if you had one super calculator that put all the variables ever you could therefore tell the future.
It's like dominoes. I am influenced by what i see, hear, touch, smell, and what i see, hear, touch, smell is influenced by something else, and then that is influenced by something else.
We only make choices that are rational to our context, and therefore our context is making the choice for us without us realising it, because we are one with our context.

tell me if you agree or disagree.
or how you see it.
The day i tried to live,
I hung out on the powerlines
and let the martyrs stretch.
2006-08-18, 4:52 AM #2
I would argue that many humans don't make choices rationally. While your environment does play a role in who you are and what choices you make, there are always individuals that overcome their "context".
2006-08-18, 6:10 AM #3
Indeed.

Just the way that money and time don't actually exist.
"Oh my god. That just made me want to start cutting" - Aglar
"Why do people from ALL OVER NORTH AMERICA keep asking about CATS?" - Steven, 4/1/2009
2006-08-18, 6:55 AM #4
I disagree. I’ve been in situations where I’ve only had two choices which can either lead to some seriously bad consequences, but before committing myself to those acts I stopped and thought about what might happen with each choice. Sadly I usually underestimate the outcome of both choices. Though I can see you’re point. If we have a choice we might do what we usually do in that situation, or we decide to surprise ourselves and do the complete opposite. If we make the wrong choice enough we learn to make the right choice when there is such a thing, we might make the wrong choice just because we want to.

Though this is all pertaining to right and wrong, and thought I like black and white scenario because they remind me of Film Noir. Plus you can really think deeply on cause and effect. Though I think timing and free will play a serious role together. For Example:

You wake up for work one morning. As you are about to leave your home you realize that you haven’t had breakfast yet, but on the other hand you’re running late. This is where timing becomes crucial to free will. Say that you choose to just leave for work. On you’re way there traffic is horrible and you get in a car wreck. It’s marked as you’re fault because you were turning left in an intersection when you were hit. This turn of events causes you to be later to work than you would have been if you had just quickly eaten and then left. Consequently you lose your job because you were late from filling out the paper work from the accident, calling a cab, going through the rest of traffic and eventually coming to work late. By losing your job you receive a black mark on you’re record and you cannot obtain a steady income. You are forced a life of burglary to pay your bills. You are eventually caught and convicted and spend some time in jail. And afterward you are put on probation. But due to more black marks on your record, you cannot obtain a respectable job and are forced to go through a loop of criminal acts and confrontations with the justice system until your life is burned out.

Now. If you had breakfast, you would have been to work slightly late because you missed the person who would have hit you, but still have your job. At work that day you would meet the woman/man, you are supposed to marry where you will live a fairly uncomplicated and fulfilling life.

Though these are two very extreme examples, and in a real life scenario there are to many implications to even consider.

Blah. I forgot my point. In any case. I think timing and freewill coincide. With the wrong timing we can still make choices for the better outcome. Though. . .I guess the choice we make can be calculated. Wow, I forgot how much I hate things like this. No one can really win because there are to many implications to consider. :psyduck:
My blawgh.
2006-08-18, 7:03 AM #5
It's simple really. Coincidence is a huge factor. You can't rule it out.

In Phantom-Seraph's example, you couldn't have known the consequences of your decision, simply because of the unknown factors.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-08-18, 8:42 AM #6
There's a hormone to give us the feeling that a choice we made was made by us and not just chemical reactions happening in our brain.
Sorry for the lousy German
2006-08-18, 9:19 AM #7
Originally posted by JimmyLuthor:
Just from reading that religious debate, there was alot of discussion on freewill.
I believe choice is an illusion, and its all environmental, it may not be an illusion but everything could be calculated if you had one super calculator that put all the variables ever you could therefore tell the future.

Man what. The fact that you said that there were variables defeats your entire argument. The variables are free will.

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