Probably true, I wouldn't assume a hand-scrubbing car-wash gig would cost more than say, $40-$50 a day, which isn't a terrible sacrifice. It still smells like a "do a good deed in hopes these people will come to our services to fill our donation plates" plan. Not that it's "bad," as long as people realize what's going on...

Reminding someone that sometimes people do nice things is a great service. Perhaps not as great as helping a homeless person, but just as necessary.

I don't think they did it for money. I think they did it to try and spread the word. That's the thing about religion, everyone who has 'found the answer' want to share the answer.

I was a cashier at a grocery store when I was 15. One night I was working and as this lady (think it was a lady, this was like 5 years ago) was leaving, she handed me a business card. Didn't say anything, just handed it to me and left. When I looked at it later it had printed across the top in small letters "The wages of sin is..." and then in giant blackletter type calligraphy "Death". If you flipped the card upside down it had printed in the same small type "The gift of God is eternal..." and the upside down word "Death" spelt "Life". I was kind of freaked out, I think I burned the card cause I was afraid this crazy lady was trying to curse me or something. Who goes around giving random people cards like that?

I used to, but I haven't been in church in a little over a year now.

Once somebody left a Chick Tract in the bathroom of the grocery store I worked at. I kept it for a while, but it's probably long gone by now.

Tracts are rediculous.

Anyway, if you're considering going to the church, why don't you just go and check it out? Worst comes to worst, you won't like it.

Well, I went. It was actually really good. It was not what I was expecting at all. It was a very professional and well put on service. The music was pretty good, not "churchy" at all. It was even fun.

I will write an Adventure story about it later when I have more time. Some interesting things happened while I was there.

Nyet! I know the secret, and I'm not telling anybody! It'll be mine, all mine!

So what is the answer? I'm sure the gift of such knowledge would be more kind than that of a pumpkin.

You have to "accept Jesus." And for some reason, that includes going somewhere once a week where you don't want to go and paying money to some guy.

The answer is at their church. They want people to come listen, so they are doing generous things like car washing and free pumpkins. I thought that was obvious =p

Church cuts into NFL football viewing time. Therefore I shall not attend.

Jesus at the door?

Well, the church service was very good. Not boring or "churchy" in the typical sense. I went to a service at 11 am. They had one on Saturday, and another at 9 am.

I drove into the huge parking lot, and was directed to a place to park. I was greeted by at least 7 people on my way from my car to the main building. There were several buildings, but there were signs indicating which way to go.

The main building seated about 2000, I'd guess. There were about 1,000 seats in the balcony, which is where I sat. I had a clear view of the entire stage. They had cameras mounted on the front of the balcony to record the service. There as no one visible operating them, yet they moved. They were servo-controlled, and there was probably an operator in a room somewhere. They had 3 large screens (10x10, I'd guess) above the stage, and two even larger (15x15 or so) on either side that showed video of the action on stage, the words to the songs, and, the part I think is cool, the Bible verses used in the sermon, so people who didn't have thier Bibles, or who don't know where The Second Book of the Corinthians is can read along and be in it without feeling like a complete dork.

There were about 1500 people in said building. The intersting thing is that I couldn't see any majority in the composition of the audience. There were young people (teens, college aged people), old people, blacks, whites, browns and reds. There were people in expensive suits and ties, and people in normal pants and a tshirt (like me). Ther was no real majority in any of it, and what's really odd, is that they seemed to get along. They weren't sitting in groups, they were all mixed together.

The music featured a band of 6 people: a guitarist playing what appeared to be an ESP, a bassist on what also appeared to be an ESP, a saxaphonist, a pianist/keyboardist with a Korg Trinity/Triton combo as well as a baby grand piano, a drummer with a huge drum set (he was in a cage, I couldn't tell waht he was using), and a main vocalist/guitarist on an Ibanez Destroyer using a Countrynan E-6. The music was very good. They played some rock songs, mellowed down and played a blues tune (the saxaphone guy pulled out a harmonica), and a gospel song. The band was wearing normal clothing.

The pastor looked to be about 60 years old, and he wore a button front shirt. Nothing fancy. He gave a good message that wasn't boring, and was even practical. He talked about how things that are temporary don't give us joy. They can make us happy temporarily, but the only things that can give us long term joy are things that aren't even things, but people. He said that investing in people is what brings real joy -- people such as family, friends, others in the community and the church. He then gave several examples of how the church was investing in people -- food and clothing, drug and alcohol rehabilitation, immigration and ESL classes, mission aid trips to Mexico, China, and other poor nations, and after-school programs for kids (the city we are in isn't so very nice for a kid to grow up in). He was very funny and told several good stories. He used the big screends to show some videos to illustrate his point. It was very well done; he was a good speaker.

Then came the offering time. He said "remember, investing in God and people is what brings eternal joy. Now this is the part where Freelancer says "I told you so". Except, he was wrong. The pastor said "As a reminder, this offering is only for people who regularly attend the church and consider it their home, as members of the church. If you do not consider this yoru church home, and do not consider Sunrise to be your church family, please do not put any money into the plate. If this is your first time, please do not give. Again, we are here to help you, and do not want you to feel any obligation at all. Instead, we ask that you fill out a communication slip..." There was a little slip in the program that asked for some simple information (name, age, number of children, address).

After that, another song, then the service was over. There were people in front of the stage afterward to be available for prayer or counseling for those who wanted it. Over all the service was quite enjoyable, and lasted only 75 minutes.

And with the wonders of Tivo, I didn't miss any football.

It is nice to actually read a positive church experince online. I've recently decided to go to seminary to become a college minister and trying to be apart of a college community is rough today due to the rude mistakes that people outside of the church see. The current college ministry I work with and a lot around us have started to try and move past the ugly views and ways that have turned a lot of people off. I can say we don't do such things just for the money or to brainwash more followers. We truely believe in our faith and want to open the door to other people. We want to be more christlike in that we love all no matter who they are and what they like to do or think. To be friendly and inviting. If you don't want what we offer that is fine, but as our pastor says..there is no reason you can't at least have a good time with us. Good clean fun with a bunch of nice people is what we really want to offer. If you accept out beliefs well thats great as well but not the only goal of such out reach programs.

"The Answer"

Long ago in a dusty village
full of hunger, pain and strife
a man came forth with a vision of truth
and the way to a better life
he was convinced he had the answer
and he compelled people to follow along
but the hunger never vanished and the man was banished
and the village dried up and died

at a time when wise men peered
through brass tubes toward the sky
the heavens changed in predictable ways
and one man was able to find
that he had thought he found the answer
and he was quick to write his revelation
but as they were scutinized in his colleagues' eyes
he soon became a mockery

Don't tell me about the answer
'cause then another one will come along soon
I don't believe you have the answer
I've got ideas too
but if you've got enough naiveté and you've got conviction
then the answer is perfect for you

an urban sprawl sits choking on its discharge
overwhelmed by industry
searching for a modern day
savior from another place
inclined toward charity
everyone begging for an answer
without regard to validity
the searching never ends
it goes on and on and on for eternity

- Greg Graffin

Sounds like you had a good time Steven

They seem like nice folk.

Even if the camera thing is a little creepy.

So if you go again and don't donate, you're essentially insulting everyone else by telling them that you don't consider them a part of your church family.

No, there are way to many people to notice, and I doubt they'd be insulted. Beside, it only seems fair that if I go on a regular basis, and if I take part in the activities and if I get something from them, that I should return the favor. It's give and take. They're not just hoarding up money; I can see how they're using it and not just letting it sit, or giving it to the pastor(s).

It's not really about the money.

They just want your happy little soul.

Church =/= Awesome

That's nonsense. Do you also think that if someone visiting from out of town for a couple weeks didn't put any money in because they were a member of another church, they'd feel insulted?

Of course its nonsense, but it is what the preacher implied.

Hardly. Not sure how it is at this particular church, but there's been a formal component to membership at every church I've been a part of. If he hasn't actually placed membership, I really doubt anyone's going to be hurt because he doesn't consider them family.

No, it's what you misconstrued as an implication.

If you want to go down that rout let's look at all the purchases you've made that are not for food, shelter or other absolute necessities.

And really, when it gets down to it, homeless people in the US have it great compared to real poor people in the rest of the world. In the end you can do what you like with your money. It's yours to give if you want to, that's what makes it a gift- it's optional.

I thought that argument was done>.<

At my church, membership involves a class and discipleship. It's not like you just decide one day to be a member. It's sorta an official thing.

Could be different there, though.